Giants Insane Comeback Falls Short Vs Saints | 1035

Following baseball means following it to new cities, new ballparks, new neighborhoods, new restaurants and new spots to hit before the very first pitch. Sometimes, that's a hotel right in the heart of Boston, or a weekend in San Diego. booking.com makes it easy for every baseball fan to find the right stay. Wherever the game is taking you next, from where you are to where you want to be, that's booking.com. Booking., yeah, an official travel partner of MLB, Major League Baseball Trademarks, used with permission. Hello, and welcome back to Talkin Giants, presented by the Fanatics Sports & Casino. I want to read you a post, a tweet, that I put out this morning, Sunday morning, October 18th. The Saints are playing awful, offensively and defensively. So as Giants fans, we should prepare for a good portion of this game to be absolutely unbearable and painful, and then somehow still be in it at the end. And regardless of the outcome, we will all be emotionally exhausted by 4:30 p.m. It is 4:40 p.m. on Sunday, October 18th, 2026. My name is Justin Penik, alongside Shaun Morash from WFAN. And Shaun, I am emotionally exhausted. How are you? I think that's the right way to sum it up. Justin, I'm somewhere torn between I'm upset, I'm angry. I sort of don't care, and I can explain what I mean by that. And then also excited for what could be next. So I kind of have like everything in a blender right now. But I think when you have everything in a blender, that does add up to emotionally exhausted. So I think I'm right there with you, dude. Yeah, I do think a lot of my emotions, I know we're all, especially we go live after the game, we appreciate that everybody hangs out with us as soon as we go live after games on YouTube, if you want to like the stream and subscribe to Talkin Giants. We're close to 41,000 subscribers. So we go live right after the game. So I do recognize that a lot of the emotions that people have right now are on this really unprecedented 17 point unanswered comeback that the Giants just put on that was almost 24 points of a comeback that JJ. McCarthy and the Giants put on. But really like my emotions and my if there is anger and frustration of with this game, it is how the Giants played from the two minute warning in the first half at the at the end of the first half to very much in the fourth quarter. Like that is where my frustration and my anger does lie with this team because the Giants were down 34 to 10 at some points in this game. They were up 10 to nothing. At that point, I was possibly expecting the Giants to be the team that was up 34 to 10 because the Saints looked awful. It wasn't even that the Giants like, oh my God, they look so good. Jameis was still missing throws in the first half and there were some little things that they needed to clean up. But the Giants were playing like the much better team than Charlie Jones fumbles the ball. And the slightest bit of adversity just set this team spiraling down. And they deserve credit. They deserve credit. It is another game where they never say die. They fight back. They fight tooth and nail to the end. So they deserve credit with that. But now, Shaun, these are back to back weeks where shooting yourselves in the foot costs you W's. It costs you wins. And it's also back to back years. Matchups against the Saints where the Saints look like not a good football team and the Giants hand them victories. Yeah, I mean, Justin, they turned the ball over four times. They turned the ball over four times. They couldn't sniff a Tyler Shuck pick through the bulk of this game. And obviously, the Charlie Jones one is the one that flips the entire game. But just because Charlie Jones fumbles there doesn't mean the entire thing has to crater. And it cratered for a couple of reasons. Of course, the Jameis picks. I know McCarthy throws one later on. That doesn't help. We'll talk about him in a little bit. The Jameis picks. But also simple things like Jason Pinnock. Can you force Alvin Kamara out of bounds as he takes off that way? And just, I thought Justin probably would just say since the Rams game, the worst 20 minutes of game time this Giants defense has had all season long. Just in terms of big chunk plays. And I know they were exhausted because they couldn't get off the field based on the turnovers and everything else that was happening. There was a half time break in between there too, you know? That's true too, but just that parry over the beginning of the third quarter, end of the second quarter, you're giving up eight yards a clip. And I thought to me, as big as the turning point is definitely the Charlie Jones play, just the idea that the defense, which let's not forget in that Rams game when everything else was great and Javon Hollins, you know, daring the team to make plays and trying to make plays, they just had nothing going defensively for what ended up being too important a stretch for this game. And it ultimately haunted them. And every time they did get the ball back, there was another turnover, which was absolutely killing them. And it was, look, if the game is a 70-minute game instead of a 60-minute game, they probably find a way to win the game. But it is a 60-minute game, and they cost themselves too many possessions today. Yeah, 1000%. I mean, the Giants, the areas in which they're expected to win games, the areas in which they have to win games without Jackson Dart, I think that's the reason why they lost today. Bad penalties, horrible penalties, penalties on special teams. Oh, which cost to them valuable field position and time that they needed late in the game to stage this comeback. Bad pre-snap penalties. Shaun, what the hell was that sequence of events where nobody could decide if the if, oh, we're going to have a false start. OK, but no, Chase Young is going to jump off sides. It was three plays in a row with like two different guys. Dude, actually the worst play in that sequence was actually Maui Noah holding. You had a free play, dude. You had a free play that would have given you third and three. Instead, it's a negating third and eight that then leads to the next pre-snap penalty, too. Dude, you have to be aware when there's a free play. You cannot be holding there if you're Maui Noah. That was actually worse than the pre-snap penalties in that spot, in that sequence. Yeah, because that started it. Because then it was still like second and eight, and then it turned into second and 13. Yeah, so that was crazy. The fumbles, of course, fumbles continue. Field position, special teams, like these are the areas. A John Harbaugh, well coached team, the little things, winning games on the margins, not allowing the Saints to return a ball back to the 50-yard line. How about this? When you're kicking the ball off with two minutes and four seconds left and you have two timeouts left, I mean, that ball really can't be returned. You got to kick it out of the back of the end zone. I don't think that they should just be kicking it out of bounds and giving the Saints the ball at the 40-yard line, but the ball has to go out of the back of the end zone. The Saints can't return that kick there because then that's even like a 40-second swing. You know what I mean? Yeah, now let's be real though, Justin. The more I think about it, because I think it was Doug Analytics actually tweeted it. It didn't do it on me in real time, so I'm not going to pat anything on the back other than Doug for this. You just said I wouldn't have kicked the ball out of bounds. I think I would have, dude, because what does it matter? You need three stops anyway. You don't get to stop the games over, so why not give them the ball at the 40? Just because you want to be back at the 20 and have a better field position on the return, you need to get off the field. You're playing the time more than you're playing the Saints at that point. Yeah, I also would want my big leg kicker to kick the ball out of the back of the end even if that saves you five yards. You know what I mean? Fair. That's fair. That's fair. No, I get that point, but still. I mean, this is just too many mistakes on special teams for this team. And they faced a little bit of adversity. And I'm saying this knowing that they fought back, but they kind of started the fight back when it was maybe a little too late. And they faced a little bit of adversity. And then after that, they were totally, totally destroyed on both sides of the line. The O-line and the D-line, like you touched on the D-line, and you touched on the big runs that the Saints had in the second half to kind of start that half. But especially this O-line, too. This was probably, Shaun, the most disastrous offensive line game that the Giants have had since 2023. And I'm very confident, very confident in saying that. Disastrous, it was a disastrous run game. And we could talk all you want about what running back should be back there. I saw plenty of people on social media getting really mad that taking Cam Scadaboo out of the game was the nail in the coffin of this rushing offense. No, it was not. No, it was not. Okay, should Cam be in the game a little bit more? Maybe. Should he have some sort of touches or rushing attempts? Maybe. But this offensive line, nobody ain't going anywhere with how this offensive line played today against an awful, an awful Saints defense. And we knew that coming in. This was the most advantageous, to use a word that you love to use, advantageous opponent that the Giants had to run the ball against since the Dallas Cowboys Week 1. And do you want to know what they did today running the ball? Do you want to know what they did running the ball? Take out JJ. McCarthy, take out Darnold Mooney, Tyrone Tracy went six attempts for 18 yards, Stephen Singletary four attempts for 14 yards, Najee Harris four attempts for two yards. Enough, enough. No running back is going anywhere, Shaun. No listen, you're right in terms of the blocking scheme. We know obviously running, you're getting nothing in. Obviously, I got to go back and look how Marcus Bow did, but it didn't seem like they were getting anything to the edge in the right. And Justin, in the end, man, we talked about this. You're going to bench Gataboo, you're going to bench Kamp Scataboo. I get that the O-line is not opening holes. If the O-line is not opening holes, I want the guy with the most explosive ability to get his hands on the ball more, and that's Tyrone Tracy. They're not giving it to Manu enough. And when you have a bad run blocking O-line and you're giving it to the slowest running back of the four on the team to start the game, I don't know what you expect to happen other than misery and allowing that Saints to run defense just to get right again. Awful, awful decisions. Yeah, again, we'll talk about it, and especially with this O-line, I think it's going to require a little bit of a midweek pod, like specific analysis, but John Runyon getting his ass absolutely handed to him on that huge, huge Najee Harris loss. Goes for like a six yard loss, and then that drives over. And Najee Harris, because he has zero lateral movement and zero lateral ability, that drives over. So then John Runyon is just driven back. Francis Mowinoa was, that was one of the most disastrous pass blocking games that I've seen from an offensive lineman, again, since 2023. A string of bad plays, disastrous plays throughout the game. You mentioned the holding call. There was another one where another sack that Jameis Winston takes, where Marcus Bowe gets knocked on his ass, and then Francis Mowinoa also like doesn't cover, like he tries getting a hand on somebody, and then that doesn't work. There was another sack that a rookie had over Mowinoa inside, it was the rough in the passer call on Jameis Winston, where he takes the hit to the head. He just gets beat right off the line, and he kind of gets caught leaning. And then, with 38 seconds left on a third and six, 36 seconds left on the third quarter third and six, Francis Mowinoa, they're stunting, and they're twisting up front the Saints defenses. So Francis Mowinoa is blocking number 97, and I'm watching it right now, he's blocking number 97, and he thinks that Brian Hudson to his left, I guess, is also there to pick up that guy in support. But Brian Hudson has somebody else in front of him, since they're stunting and twisting, so then Mowinoa just lets him run right by. It was a bad, bad, bad game from Francis Mowinoa and John running collectively. But I think Mowinoa is wearing a lot of it on those sacks that the quarterbacks took today. When do we start having a Mowinoa conversation? We had Evan Neal and Andrew Thomas' conversations at this point in their rookie years. When do we start having a Mowinoa conversation? It's too early. It's too early. This, I will say, for his credit, I know he had a bad run blocking game versus the commanders. I know the advanced metrics on PFF have been disastrous for him so far, but this was the first disastrous game for Francis Mowinoa. I mean, what do you want the answer to be? You drafted him tenth overall. You're going to play him. I know. You know what I mean? No, listen, you're going to play him, but I think we need to stop assuming that Mowinoa was some kind of lock or stalwart guard for the next 10 years. It doesn't mean he won't be, but, I mean, he is going through it right now. He's going through it. And if your O-line is going through it, you can't just give up and say we can't run the ball. You got to put them in an advantageous position to have holes open up, which doesn't involve Najee Harris, who's basically like a plotting, you know, I don't know, not a bell cow, but certainly runs like a cow. And by that, I mean, he doesn't move at all. Yeah, there's just no space. They're getting no push up front. And I don't know what the answer is. And hopefully, radio transition, how do you like this? Hopefully a move to a more rushing running quarterback in JJ. McCarthy can maybe open up some lanes in the running game. And now it's time for the quarterback report, brought to you by Mohegan Sun. Quarterbacks always surprise us. I mean, Mohegan has written the intro to this segment perfectly, because every single week that we've been on, and we've done the quarterback report, I read that line, and I can't help but laugh. That's why we love football, the emotions of it, man, why do we do this? Because we're in it to feel something, just like Mohegan Sun, where something unexpected is always just around the corner. So, Shaun, Jameis Winston's line on the day was 14 completions, 26 attempts for 152 yards, four sacks, only 10 yards lost on those sacks. He threw a touchdown, and two picks. Now, I will say, one of the picks was bad, the second pick was bad, the other pick was Malik Nabers just didn't see the ball. You know, Jameis throws the ball as Malik Nabers is coming out of his break, and Nabers doesn't get the ball out of the air. It's the little things that really why the Giants lost this game. That's one of those little things that maybe they felt like they had some momentum. And then JJ. McCarthy on the day, 11 completions, 21 attempts, 243 yards. Do the math on what that is per completion. He had a touchdown, he had an interception, but also he had a crazy 28-yard run to really set the Giants up on the other side of the 50-yard line. Just fell a little bit short. 12 yards short of completing an insane, insane comeback, Shaun. Yeah, I mean, disheartening to say the least when you're 12 yards short. But in the end, Justin, look, I thought some of the sacks early from Jameis Winston were not trying to turn the ball over, so I lived with them. But boy, oh boy, man, I don't even think it's an interception completion stuff. There were so many throws today where it looked like the Jameis versus the Titans, you know, in a clear weather day, behind, you know, not hitting likely when he should have earlier in the game. I just, I thought it was a real three steps backwards performance, and then you see what McCarthy does now. When JJ. McCarthy first gets going, Saints had kind of called off the Dawgs, they had the call back on the Dawgs late, so I don't know how much of that was just kind of, you know, in the end, miracles happened, but I will tell you this, John Harbaugh after the game has already said now is not the time to make a quarterback decision, he still believes in Jameis Winston, the quarterbacks will be judged on performance. If, and there's the tweet from Jordan Renan, if the quarterbacks are being judged on performance, I don't know how JJ. McCarthy doesn't go into a now suddenly red hot Texan team and at least try to play against those pass rushers, because if this whole line looks like this versus those Texans pass rushers, Jameis Winston's just got to sit back there and be a dead duck, Justin. No, that's a great point. If the whole line is in a compromised spot, Andrew Thomas eventually comes out of this game. Was that pulling Andrew Thomas? Concussion too, right? For Andrew Thomas, he said? I didn't see the formal... That would... Is it crazy to say that would make me feel a little bit better? Then instead of an ankle, a hamstring, a groin or something like that, that he's already been struggling with or in the past he struggled with. But still, if this Andrew Thomas, if this line is without Andrew Thomas, if this line is compromised, if this line isn't playing well, even with everybody in there, against the Houston Texans and Will Anderson Jr., you cannot have a statue back there. And really, Shaun, I think the decision, I think the decision, they already made the decision. The game could have been won. Initially, the intention of putting JJ. McCarthy in there was that we're just going to run the clock out and the game's over. That was the intention. The Saints put their second stringers in. That was the intention. But then it turned into, there were opportunities to put JMIS back in the game. And instead, they went with JJ because the game was on the line. I think the decision was made. Yeah, I think the decision was made that you were, I think the likelihood was you were losing. But I don't think Harbaugh, and I think he would admit this, wasn't giving up on the game. I think he knew you had no shot to win that game without a quarterback that could scramble around and try to extend plays. When you're down three scores and you know the pass rush is teeing off, so I'm talking about the Texans, Justin, you can't have a quarterback sitting there patting the ball. So while I agree, they probably thought the likelihood is they were losing the game, I never interpreted McCarthy coming to the game as that was completely giving up. I think it was, hey, we have this McCarthy package. The only way to survive this game when we're basically going to abandon the run is to have a quarterback who can run. And you saw it there. So again, if you think that JJ. McCarthy gives you that dynamic and you saw it on full display, even if it's kind of with a little bit of an asterisk, the way the Saints defense was playing, this just to me gives the Giants offense the most juice and the most opportunity in a season that is still not lost after this loss. Yeah, it's not even that I think Jameis played particularly awful. I think we've had more awful Jameis Winston games other than this. But he certainly wasn't good versus this defense. I mean that in a very long time. That is, that is, and he also just wasn't on the field for a good part of like an hour when it comes to like the end of the first half and then leading into the second half. The Giants offense just wasn't even on the field and then they look dead. But you do just look at the arm of McCarthy, though. And I know like the Jameis Winston arm is not the necessarily the big conversation today. There were some inaccurate throws. God, Isaiah likely is probably still running if Jameis Winston hits him on that first drive. The arm of Jameis Winston isn't necessarily the story of this game, but I will say like you just look at the broadcast and how fast the camera is moving when JJ. McCarthy throws it. I think that does give the Giants a better opportunity to win football games. You know? Yeah. And look, I think furthermore on that would be, I don't think either of us, Justin, are big JJ. McCarthy guys. I don't know where you were pre-draft, but we're just talking about in a vacuum, JJ. McCarthy versus Jameis Winston and what this Giants team and offenses. And through that, yeah, there's juice on McCarthy's throws and there's mobility. So to me, also I think the other part of this is, Jameis is not some kind of young quarterback where if you worry about benching him, you sink him mentally. Like if McCarthy fails this week out of the by, versus the Eagles, you could always go back to Jameis Winston 15 times between now and the end of the season. It's not going to be fate. The guy signed an extension to be the backup quarterback. So I also don't think it's any harm in taking the reins away from Jameis in terms of like a locker room thing. If all else fails, like you could rotate these guys three more times the rest of the year like a freaking pitching rotation and play the hot and cold game. I don't think it matters. Yeah, I almost went unconscious during the come back. I almost just, I almost want, like I want to sit here and I want to tell you this is how I think JJ. McCarthy played, but it's almost so, it's almost so fake because usually offense in comebacks like that when defenses are playing so, I mean, the Saints play passive and now you're talking about them playing so passive. They play passive when it's, when it's, when they're winning in games. Like, you know what I mean? I almost just went unconscious. Like I want to sit here and tell you how I think JJ. McCarthy played, but I almost can't because I'm like, what is happening right now? So, what's your take aways from the performance of JJ. McCarthy? How much is there to actually take away knowing, even knowing the game situation? I think the little things are worth taking away. Like I thought JJ. McCarthy's ability, knowing that the clock was the enemy to kind of gather the team at moments and bark out what has to be done right. I mean, just think about what, what the reasons were for not playing JJ was can he master the playbook? I know it's a hurry up. I know it's basically a two, four minute drill, like three different times, but Justin, he kept everybody lined up, kept everybody going. There was only that one moment where I think it was JC. Davis of all people tells him, you know, you made the wrong move when Marcus Bowe kind of went on a full start. But those are like the big takeaways I'm taking was just the composure in those situations. This is a team, Justin, it's going to play a lot of close games if they're going to win games. Obviously, I don't think I'm breaking any ground here. And I think JJ. McCarty, take away the zip on the pass, which was there, take away his ability to like see and run up the field like that. I just found those intangible little things to be what surprised me, when I think about JJ today, and what almost gave me, you know, refreshed hope. And this is where at the beginning, when you said, hey, you know, I'm emotionally exhausted, how do you feel? My excitement portion of this, which is like a fourth of it, is I kind of think the Giants, there's a world where the Giants do have juice. I'll go back to a tweet I sent out before they ever had JJ. McCarthy. Is there a world where, you know, JJ. McCarty plays well and the Giants are in a wild card round and we're having a conversation about JJ. McCarthy and you told me, no, there isn't. I saw a glimpse of that world today. I did. Listen, you have to admit, you probably saw a little bit of a glimpse of that world too. It doesn't make it likely, but it does mean that, you know, you saw things from JJ. McCarthy two weeks into being with this team in this organization and with this offense that, honestly, man, like excited, he, by the way, when in doubt, throw to Nabers, throw to likely. He was doing those kinds of things as well. So I'm kind of in, man. I'm kind of in in terms of when Jameis plays, you're going to have those games that you had last week that like bring you in and you're excited. I'm not saying I wouldn't be excited, but I am excited by the upside of McCarthy more than the upside of Jameis. And maybe that leads to more downside, but screw it, man. Like to me, I just, what I saw in that second half, all those little things added up. I kind of think there's some juice here with McCarthy that could potentially be untapped with this coaching staff. Yeah, I certainly hope so. And it finally took a couple weeks for Jameis to get the, all right, f it. Let's just throw it to Nabers and likely, and then let's see what happens with the offense. You know, the offense was moving today for a good chunk of the first half and things like that when the offense was going through them. But then I honestly just felt like that was accelerated when JJ. McCarthy was on the field. Let's target them more. Like, Nabers getting targeted down the field, that 48-yard throw that Nabers had, that 48-yard throw and catch that McCarthy had to Nabers down the field, like, there will be more of that. And I don't think that's happening unless the ball is in the air for four seconds. Unless the ball is in the air for four seconds, that throw was on a rope by McCarthy. Ball is in the air for four seconds if Jameis has thrown it. So, you know, I don't know, man, I have a hard time coming away with these concrete takeaways, knowing the game situation, knowing that the game is just so different when you're down by multiple scores and defenses are playing on their heels like that, not in, like, these game-neutral spots. But maybe you're not down multiple scores like we've been the past couple weeks. If you're running the ball more efficiently, because McCarthy gives you those looks, not on gadget plays, but down in and down out. No, I agree. I agree. And by the way, I don't think McCarthy's presence is going to be the thing that turns this Giants rushing offense into top 10, but maybe it's just usable. Maybe. Maybe it's just usable. And also maybe McCarthy can run you out of some of those sacks and extend plays better, even though Jameis was doing that a little bit. So I don't know, man. I think McCarthy has did enough this week, and I think their actions by keeping him in the game shows you that he's the starting quarterback, at least next week against the Texans. So I'm with you. I'm with you. Do we have to close out anything on that quarterback report? Yeah, we do. We do. Any other any other notes on on quarterback? Not particularly. There's some I mean, there's stuff that ties in relative to the quarterback that I want to get to. But I figured whatever, if we tie a bow on on our great friends at Mohegan Sun, that could lead us into more. Yeah, for sure. After the game, celebrate the win or loss at Mohegan Sun, Beyond Your Wildest. Fox One is where MLB on Fox streams. From marquee matchups to lights out performances, Fox One is your home for MLB on Fox, live as it happens on demand. Follow can't miss postseason matchups as teams battle it out on the field, then stream the 2026 World Series live on Fox One at home or on the go, live or on demand. Never miss a moment. Stream now. All right. Next part, which I think would help JJ. McCarthy could have helped Jameis today. Is it crazy to say Theo Johnson was an enormous loss and a bigger loss than Jermaine Aluminor in this game? Not bigger than Jermaine Aluminor, but yeah, yeah, it was a big, it was a big loss. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it was, dude. I think I think some of the run blocking was missed by Theo Johnson, the inline stuff today. I know you had Mannerts out there, you know, you had Fedoni out there, but even the threat of that second tight end being able to go down a seam on that Saint defense and catch a pass, I think that element was missing today. I can't believe I'm saying that, but I think the team severely lacked a Theo Johnson. No, I agree, because when Fedoni is out there, you think pass, when Mannerts is out there, you think run. When Theo is out there, it's kind of like, oh, you know, he could kind of do both. So yeah, I do agree with you from that standpoint for sure. I do want to talk about Malik neighbors too. Okay. I feel like Malik, by the way, I have our live chat up. People are crushing Malik today. What are we doing here, guys? Why? They're saying he quit on a couple plays. Like I didn't think he quit on the interception. I think that was just a complete loss of communication. Somebody said he quit on the two point conversion. I don't get that sense at all. I mean, Malik neighbors just had his third hundred yard receiving game and certainly didn't say die in this game. Yeah. I mean, the, do you want to talk about the two point conversion? I hate calling an end zone fade. Why are we calling an end zone fade? Right. Exactly. Exactly. Again, I hate that. That's the two point play that you come up with. Yep. Yep. Can't can't happen. Absolutely can't happen. OK, so let's talk about Malik from the element you want to talk about. Not that he quit. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't think he quit. I the interception, I just didn't think he saw it. Twelve receptions, 15 targets, 165 receiving yards, an 80 percent catch rate over three yards per run, which is awesome, over four yards after the catch, too. I felt like this is also another game of Malik Neighbors stacking some really good yack plays as well. Made a guy miss out in the open field after he caught the ball on the right hand side. His most popular route that he ran today, four receptions, four targets, 69 yards, also caught a post for 46 yards. He ran an outroute, two catchers for 20 yards as well. Hitches, he had two catchers for 20 yards as well, and then they have a slant down. Summer Sports does one catch for nine yards. So Malik Neighbors winning in a lot of different ways. I think this is three games in a row now of 100 plus receiving yards for Malik Neighbors. Very cool. First giant to do that since 2015, Odell Beckham Jr. Yeah. So I'm all for it. I'm all for it. And I do think JJ. McCarthy could further unlock Malik Neighbors down the field. And I'm not just talking about goal balls, but that crossing pattern, that post, though some of those crossing patterns, deep crossers, that post at the end of the game, going for 46 yards. It's not just Malik Neighbors running a goal ball on the sideline, but I think JJ. McCarthy can attack different parts of the field. And it was very, very cool seeing Malik Neighbors win in a multitude of ways, make some guys miss, have some juice after the catch today as well. So. Maybe I'm wrong on the effort thing. Are you with me, by the way? Are you are you here? I think I. Can you hear me? Because I feel like I'm glitching on you. I can I can hear you. Yeah, your your Wi-Fi is kind of BUNZ today. Is it BUNZ? Do you want me to move rooms? You want to talk to yourself for three minutes and I'll shut off my camera and I move rooms? No, you stay right there, Bitcajuna. OK, you stay right there. OK, whatever you say. Yeah, I roll with you. I'm sorry if it's BUNZ. I don't know why it's BUNZ. Yeah. Malachi Fields had eight targets today too. That that's crazy. I feel like you feel like you got some force targets by JJ. McCarthy, too. So you two catches 19 yards. So what what other what other notes do you have on on the offense? Well, real quickly, you just brought up Malachi Fields, which also jogged my memory. We're throwing up fades to Malik Nabers. What was also the point of Malachi Fields in the red zone? If we're never going to do that to him either, would it have been as crazy when a defense is looking for Isaiah Likely and Malik Nabers to throw up a fade to freaking Malachi Fields with the game on the line? Having my point of football, who's guarding him there? I am. I am waiting for the Malachi Fields contested catch opportunity. We haven't even gotten one like that. Predraft. That was a note that I was afraid of, like, oh, Malachi Fields is only going to be the contested catch guy. Well, now I'm at a point where he's done other things well enough that I do want to see him get some sort of contested catch opportunity, whether that be in the red zone, whether that be deep down the field. If he's just running a gold ball on the sideline, I want to see it because I don't think there's any defense that's going out of their way right now. Oh, we have to shade a safety to Malachi Fields. I think they're giving that attention to likely and Malik Nabers. They should be. They should. So I'm waiting for that opportunity. Yeah. And if there's anything that JJ. McCarthys showed you today is that he's willing to do that with freaking Charlie Jones. But also the other thing, did Mooney get hurt or did Mooney get benched for Charlie Jones? I think Mooney was slow to get up after he had a... I don't consider this to be a drop. His last target of the game where he was targeted in the middle of the field. And I think Jameis should have thrown it possibly like a little bit lower. He was slow to get up and I think that was it for him. Okay. I don't think he got... Did I see this quote right? Oh, okay. He got hurt. Neck injury. Okay. Yeah. That's when he came in. So it was a neck injury. I missed that. The other thing would be, am I seeing this right? That Harbaugh said, had they gotten it, they would have went for two. Yes, they would have went for two and not played for overtime. Your thoughts? Oh, I... That's opposite of what they did. That's the exact opposite of what they did last week, right? Yeah, I wonder if that would be more, they just felt like they were out of gas and just capitalized on the momentum, leave the same stunt. I personally disagree. I would have played for overtime at home. I didn't love their, maybe they felt like they had a two point play that was obviously better than the end zone fade. Yeah, that decision I treat as a... Then they should have made that earlier. Right. I don't know, that surprises me because Harbaugh is usually a guy that leans on his special teams and leans on the other elements of the game going right. Yes, exactly. You can't have a better player saving when you turned it into a two possession game when it could have been a one possession play. So if that was your best play, I don't know what you're, what are you going to hand it to Anansi Harris at that point and Yeah, I just don't, I just, now I guess I'm second guessing the differences in strategy. You were going to go for the win there, but why didn't you go for the win last week? Exactly. I don't know. Maybe it's just this game was so nuts and the Saints were so stunned. But then again, your comeback Washington was stunned too. I guess that's probably a follow up question worth asking. I don't know. And also like honestly, if you have a two point play, the Saints Network, Camp Scadaboo should be in the game. But clearly, Camp Scadaboo was only there to push Jameis Winston forward today. No, that's only a youth thing, clearly. They don't believe in putting Camp Scadaboo on the field inside the red zone. All right, before we keep going, today's episode, today's episode is sponsored by HIMSS. Most guys aren't fully satisfied with their sex lives, and most of them don't have to be. HIMSS makes it simple. Personalized treatment plans, completely online, no office visit, no pharmacy line, no awkward conversation, connect with a licensed provider. Who figures out what's right for you? Daily support service ready just for when the moment calls. Get prescribed online, ships directly to your door. Eight in ten HIMSS customers said that they were able to satisfy their partner. Are you ready to build a better sex life? Visit himss.com/giants for a personalized plan for sex, hair, weight loss, and more. That's himss.com/giants. Prescription products require an online consultation with a licensed healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions do apply. Individual results may vary based on a survey of HIMSS customers. See himss.com for full details. Thank you, HIMSS. All right, Shaun, I mean, anything else on the offense? The offensive line does deserve a lot of flack today, and I feel like we kind of gave it to them at the beginning, especially Mohe Noah. John Runyon obviously had his bad moments, too. So do you have anything else on the offense front? Nope, not at all. We'll get to more of the offensive line on the mailbag in the midweek episode this week, I'm assuming. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I want to... they had a punt, interception in the third quarter. Punt, interception, interception, touchdown, touchdown, field goal, downs. What a wild game. Emotionally exhausting. All right, this defense. What are your opening thoughts on the defense? An all-too-familiar look of failed tackles and bad angles in the run game that felt like we had avoided for weeks, Justin. This looked like last year's Giants. It looked like the year before Giants in terms of tackling. And none worse than Jason Pinnock's attempt on Elvin Kamar on the sideline. But just it was, man, death by a thousand paper cuts with those runs. And I just I'm fascinated by what the tape shows and who's really at fault. But it was horrendous football. And let's be honest, he made plays that popped, but it felt like the least amount of times I've said of Elrice's name in a game in quite some time as well. I thought he was I thought he was he was everywhere. But when there was when there's 38 rushing attempts for one hundred and seventy five yards and you're allowed in five, you know, five yards, five yards per pop, there's going to be a lot of opportunities for you not to be in the right spot, too. So it's so crazy looking at this where the Saints score thirty four points and Tyler Shuck, this is Tyler Shuck's line on the day. Sixteen completions for thirty attempts, one hundred and forty four yards. No sacks, by the way, no sacks. I wonder what his time to throw was. I can look that up. But that was, it's kind of crazy that I like, I look back at this game and yeah, the run defense is a frustrating thing again. And maybe that, maybe this is just a me thing, being so numb to this run defense being bad. But I almost feel like this defense didn't even overtly play that bad. Okay, they played bad. I feel like they didn't play that bad today. Am I just numb? No, and no, I don't think you're numb. Honestly, even when Greg Newsome came out, it wasn't like disaster passing plays too, where Nick Jones was just getting killed at every turn either. It was just the runs, man. And it just felt like they just, whatever they were doing where it used to be second and eights were just now second and twos, it killed them. Tyler Shuck's time to throw. Hey, Kayvon Thibodeau, where the hell were you? Yeah, Tyler Shuck's time to throw. You can never do a show in this room ever again. Tyler Shuck's time to throw was 2.58 seconds today, by the way. So it was three, four, five, six, seventh fastest on the weekend. So another quarterback that doesn't want to hold the ball, hold on to the ball against this Giants defense. But yeah, the runs are, and I feel like a lot of the runs happen when DJ Reader and Shelby Harris are off the field once again. And who would have thought that CJ. Okoye, not being active for today may actually impact them too. Not that he's anything great, but I actually thought that he was stringing together some decent games. And instead, whenever those two guys aren't on the field, it's disastrous. So, same thing. Awful. Over and over. What was worse, my Wi-Fi or our pass rush? I actually... Abdul Carter, I thought, was great. And then everybody else just doesn't exist. Are you worried about Abdul Carter, by the way? Because after that last play where he kind of got bent backwards, I don't know if that was the calf or a headshot. It looked like he really... No, I don't know. We'll see what he practiced. He didn't practice at all this week and then he played. That was really welcome news this morning to find out that his status was active. And then he has the back-to-back holding calls called against him. And then there was a... he pulls a ghost technique and... Not on overtime. He pulls a ghost technique in the fourth quarter, forces Tyler Shuck to miss Vailay. Vailay had a step on Drew Phillips. And instead, with the pressure that Kavon Thibodeau and Abdul Carter had, forces an incompletion. Giants get the ball back. So, I thought Abdul Carter had another really good game. I don't think it was as dominant as maybe what he did the last two weeks, but still a really good game. And also, he has to come off the field, because now Trace Ford is coming on the field. I do think Carter had a little bit more of a pitch count. And there were plays where Trace Ford looked good, and then there were plays where Trace Ford looked bad. So, that's Abdul Carter. Hopefully, we just see you next week. And then, how many snaps did he play today? Let's check. There were 72 total snaps today. Reese, Banks, Holland, Edmonds played all 72. Kavon got the Abdul Carter treatment, playing 61 of them. Carter was on the field for 47 of them, and then we saw Trace Ford on the field for 30. So, you want to know who also looks slow? Okay. All right. By the way, Andrew Thomas. Okay. Go ahead. You're awful today. I'm talking. Move rooms. What do you want from me? I had to come upstairs. I got my kids sleeping downstairs. My other kids in the hospital. What do you want me to do? You know what? I apologize for saying you're awful. You've had quite the week. You've had quite the week. Okay. Hold on. We're doing a live move. Live move. Bring me with you. Narrate your house for me. All right. We are in what is called the bar room of Shaun Morash's house here. Yeah. Keep going. All right. Hold on. I'm going to open a door here. What kind of drinks you got? A lot of liquor. A lot of liquor. We are now walking into what is called the main living room, dining room, kitchen area of my house. Unbelievable. This is a real Talkin Giants. Is my Wi-Fi getting better? Yeah, actually, it is. Yes. I'm going to park it right here on my dining room table, which is towards my basement where my router is, where my daughter is downstairs sleeping next to my dad who's watching a Bills game. Hold on. This is great. I'm keeping this going. Okay. Am I good? Oh, you're great. All right. I'm closer to my Wi-Fi now. Let's go. Do you want to know who else I think is slow and I'm disappointed in? Who? Give it to me. Jahad Ward. Where was he today? Now you just said Jahad. Yeah, I forgot he existed. He played 18 snaps, but it was not good. I think he looks very, very slow, and from a player that should be more active, more like stronger against the run. Ironically enough, he had three snaps on run defense, and I like noticed at least two of them. I noticed at least two of them. Justin, it wasn't until you just said his name that I remembered he was a giant. That's how little I noticed him today. I kind of need him. Also, on that note, did I miss CJ. Okoye getting hurt that he was inactive today? Was that an inactive, was that a choice? Because if that was just a choice that they made, then I really disagree with that. Because I actually thought CJ. Okoye started to make some plays. Yes, I think CJ. Okoye is their third best interior lineman. I don't know why the hell he was inactive today. Yeah. We'll see. Okay, by the way, before my Wi-Fi went out, there was an update to Andrew Thomas. He did have, he was in Concussion Protocol. He cleared Concussion Protocol and it was a coach's decision not to have him return back to the game. I'm going to assume based on score at the time and the fact that they were kind of moving very quickly, they probably on Andrew Thomas' leg, didn't want him hurrying back to the line at every other turn and just stuck with JC. Davis. But it was a concussion, not leg related, why Andrew Thomas left the game, just to clear that up. Perfect. I'm excited to watch 25 JC. Davis snaps tomorrow morning. Well, let's say this. I know obviously a lot of it was hurry up, but there we just watched basically a whole quarter where the Giants scored what? Three touchdowns, two, whatever the hell it was, two touchdowns in a field goal where JC. Davis and Marcus Bowe were the tackles. Yeah, that was especially JC. Davis. Like I think Marcus Bowe still has questions on his overall strength, just getting tossed around, which I don't understand the people that say that he can transition so well to the inside, can watch the strength issues that he has a tackle and then think that. Why? Because there's just less space. He will be going up against heavier human beings. Weight is weight, mass is mass. Am I that dense to think that maybe the less space will help Marcus Bowe? I also think that he can get his ass kicked on the inside. So I don't know, it could be wrong there, but I am very excited to wake up. There was only three run-blocking plays for JC. Davis. I think there were 22 pass-blocking plays. And the fact that we're talking about it a whole game, where the offensive line was a disaster and he did not have a disastrous play in there. Good time. Great. I am very excited to clip that up and watch that tomorrow morning. So one more ad and then we'll talk about whatever else we want to talk about during this. Probably, Shaun, I am going to say, our messiest post-game pod yet. This episode is sponsored by Warby Parker. But you want to know what? It's also one of the messier games that we have ever seen the Giants play under John Harbaugh. And they have only played like six of them. Five, for football season means more time outside. Tailgates, watch parties, being in the elements all afternoon. Warby Parker's sports sunglasses were built for exactly that, performance lenses for short provision, and reduced distortion when moving in frames that look like something you'd actually want to wear every day. No Olympic racer aesthetic, just clean eyewear that stays put when it needs to. And it's not just sports frames. Prescription glasses, contacts and online eye exams are all in one place. Not sure what looks good? Try five frames at home for free before buying anything with the At Home Try On program. The kind of upgrade that holds up whether the game is on the line or not. Eyewear that's made to move with you. By the way, if I was sitting in section 315 today, I would have loved to have my Warby Parkers on because that sun was beaten down. And I sit on the side with the sun because I like to have some heat. But, oh boy, if I was there and I came home and I did this show, odds are, even though it was 50 degrees, I would have looked like a raccoon because my Warby Parkers would have protected me pretty damn good, but that sun would have got my head and I was going to be pink. Right now, buy one pair of glasses and get 20% off any additional pairs at warbyparker.com/giants. That's 20% off any additional pairs when you purchase one pair at W-A-R-B-Y parker.com/giants. Hell, yeah. Yeah, messy postgame pod by us. I'll say it. Yeah. Honestly, Justin, before we clean it up, I have no problem being honest with the audience. I'm going to tell you how this giant game went for me. Okay? My wife is currently with my daughter at a hospital on Long Island. Why is she at a hospital? Dad of the year here takes my kids on a scooter ride right before recording the midweek episode of Talkin Giants. My kids collide on their scooters. Not little razor scooters, nothing big deal. One falls down. My youngest, Peyton, she's constantly getting hurt. We kind of call her Bam Bam, right? She has a little cut on her finger. I don't think anything of it, little deep. Baby, you're always hurt, put a band-aid on it. She gets a little bruise under it come Thursday. I don't think anything of it. I have her go to softball practice Friday. She's complaining her glove hurts. I don't think anything of it. Saturday, I wake up, I let her play softball. She makes a good play at second base, a little whiny. I'm thinking, oh, you're just cold. Suck it up. She scores two runs. Okay. She then goes to soccer, where she scores a goal and falls into the net. Okay. Again, crying a little bit. Suck it up, sweetheart. You're fine. We get to my nephew's birthday party after soccer yesterday, and her basically her finger blows up after all the softball on soccer. And that little cut that I thought was no big deal in bruise turned out to be a complete fracture of her pointer finger. Wow. Emergency room until 1 a.m. last night. Dr. calls early this morning and says, yeah, we set the bone, but in seeing the post kind of look x-rays, they wanted to send her home. She's going to need to come in for a full blown procedure, or basically her finger is never going to be right again in her life. That's how serious this was. And my wife turns to me and she says, I got it. I'm going to call my mother. I'm going, well, my daughter's going under. I got to come with you. She says to me, Shaun, you have Talkin Giants. Wow. She wants to stay here with my other daughter, Taylor. And my wife allowed me to miss my daughter's first post-semi-surgery of her life because that's how important she viewed making sure that Talkin Giants got done today. So we have really arrived as a show, Justin. Now you could probably call me a terrible father for that, but I'm blaming my wife. She's the one who told me, no, no, no. These giant games, there's 18 of them. You committed to Justin. I'll be fine. If anything really goes awry, just do the podcast and I'll call you. She has safely gotten out of that procedure as of 5 o'clock and I should see her in the next hour and a half. But that, because of that, I switched rooms. I was doing the podcast in. I'm sorry for the sloppiness. This is just me as a Giants dad telling you what my day has been like. Honestly, the midweek show, the guest segment should be your wife. She could come right on. She'll give you the whole rundown. She was all in. I want a 60 second rundown of her dedication to this show. Hell yeah, man. Well, she also knows that she has loved the fact that I have not been lazy and picked up a second gig that has just further helped her Amazon spending habits. So I'm sure that that has helped. Oh, by the way, it's it's Aaron Judge, it's Jackson Dart, it's Brian Burns, it's Igor. Yeah, and it's Peyton Morash now, who's so full on soccer season has come to an end with four weeks left. Yes, unfortunately. But could you imagine being five and you're being told as a parent this morning? By the way, if we don't do this today, your kid's finger may never be the same again. And then I got to go sit there and watch Jameis turn the bowl over a couple of times and act like I'm in a good mood. I mean, what a terrible day. That being said, I did promise my kid when she gets home, if she got through all of this today, ice creams on daddy. And what I really meant was daddy just wants ice cream. So I hope you do too. Amen. Doug Analytics tweet just dropped. All right. Giants Saints quarterback average ball speed. Tyler Shuck, forty three point one miles per hour. Okay. JJ. McCorthy, forty nine point one miles per hour. Jameis Winston, forty one point five miles per hour. That's all. Yeah, great. Just great. Oh, God, they can't go back to James. No, they made the decision. They made the decision without saying that they made the decision. I guess post game, if I'm reading the tea leaves right, if it's Jameis, Harbaugh just says it's Jameis, right? You don't say, hey, we're not going to make that decision ten minutes after. I don't think Harbaugh is going to say anything of any... Harbaugh is going to explain things very well, but he's also going to be really nice in the way that he says nothing. He's going, he intentionally is going to say nothing because he doesn't want to say anything. But their actions, their actions and their decisions made the decision for them. They're, you don't have this 17 unprecedented, almost near unprecedented point come back. And then just go back to, go back to James. I think they have been searching, Shaun. They have been searching for a reason to do this. They've been searching for it. And I honestly don't think James played so awful today that it would necessarily dictate a just flat out benching. But I do think a circumstance that they secretly were rooting for did stumble upon in their laps. Well, yeah. I mean, in summation of the whole thing, Justin, I think we could all agree with our own two eyes, everybody out there listening, watching. This was a complete team loss, right? From Charlie Jones' fumble to the defense not getting off the field to Jameis' interceptions to the run game not working. Right? Like you could check a million boxes. You want to question some of Harbaugh's decision, Scadaboo, whatever. Again, you throw this hole in the pod, it's a complete team loss. But what you can't have happen is you're trying to overcome these obstacles as the quarterback keep digging you a further and further hole. And that is ultimately what we've always said with the Jameis Winston experience. He could keep digging you that hole or he can dig himself a hole and dig himself out of it, which is just kind of insane as well. But today, those two interceptions to me, Justin, were just, they were deal breakers for me. Like they were not what we saw last week. They were also just really bad. Like the one over the middle of the field was so bad that you're right, I think in the end, Jamies probably gets screwed by the circumstances of the entire game, but not without blaming himself either. So if this does become a JJ. McCarthy thing, then again, I don't think Jamies, Winston can, not that he would, can look at this and go, well, if Charlie Jones doesn't fumble, I don't lose my job. Well, you had a chance to overcome the Charlie Jones fumble and you just simply couldn't do it and the team hurt. Now again, the run game and the run scheme hurts Jamies, Winston as well, but that's also the style of player he is. He doesn't do anything to help himself either. So it's a real conundrum. But, I will say, Justin, no matter what, I know we already did the quarterback report, that fourth quarter, that was the closest it did feel to watching Jackson Dart's type of offense that we've had and it doesn't mean JJ. McCarthys, Jackson Dart, but it does mean it was freaking refreshing. Yeah, for sure. And again, I know we talk offense, defense on the show and we kind of talk defense with Shaun's Wi-Fi going in and out. We're kind of like, bad run defense. Okay, Abdul Carter played kind of well. Bad, bad, bad, same old shit. To put a bow on this episode and to get back more serious for a second, they got to fix, like John Harbaugh as the head coach of this team, pre-snap penalties, fumbles, field position, special teams. Also, I'm just going through Doug Analytics' timeline right now. With six minutes and three seconds left, game is 34-18. Charlie Jones has a punt return, brings it back to the 30-yard line, and I believe there is not a flag on the play, but there's a point where Charlie Jones can maybe get another good return here with six minutes and three seconds left in his fourth quarter. Giants special teams unit only had 10 players on the field. It's the back-to-back weeks where Giants special teams unit only has 10 guys on the field, per Doug Analytics. These are just little things and the hidden value things. Why they win that Tennessee game when everything else looks so bad, is finding the hidden value and the hidden points in special teams and doing those little things right. This is now back-to-back weeks where they have not won games because they did not do the little things right. How about the penalties on special teams too? No, 100%. That's all part of it. Pre-snap penalties and also the penalties on special teams. That brings you back and it hurts the offense by more time now as to come off the clock because the offense has to cover more ground. If they're gonna be playing better football teams, they're gonna be playing better football teams. As Dan Duggan said, Harbaugh said the last kickoff was supposed to be out of the back of the end zone, like I thought. He said they didn't want to give up the extra five yards by kicking it out of bounds, which I agree with. I agree with this thought process. I know Doug said to kick it out of bounds when he brought that up earlier. I think Zavada just has to kick that out of the back of the end zone. And instead of the ball starting at the 40 yard line, start at the 35. And that's just more logical and reasonable. You should expect Dominic Zavada, your big leg kicker, to be able to kick it out of bounds. So again, these little things, you're not going to be playing the commanders and the Saints every week. You're going to have a gauntlet of teams. You're playing the Houston Texans who just won in London against a very good Jaguars team. You're going to be playing the Philadelphia Eagles. You're going to be playing the commanders again. You're going to be playing a gauntlet of Lions and Browns and Colts and Jags. You're going to be playing these teams that are much, much better than the teams that you are previously playing. They are much better than the Titans, the Cardinals, the commanders and the Saints. So if this season is going to be something that is considered successful, where they win seven games, eight games, and we're talking about the Giants having the lead in the NFC East, if that narrative and if that's something that's going to continue, they will lose every game if they lose games in that fashion, because I don't think they're necessarily good enough to just flat out win them offensively and defensively with all the guys that they have down. I agree, but this is where having Harbaugh, you're not supposed to lose those ways, and they did today. They absolutely did today. You know what's a shame with Zavada not kicking the ball out of bounds, Justin? Outside of JJ. McCarthy and JC. Davis, it was probably the best game we could kind of hat tip Dominic Zavada, considering what happened in Washington a week ago, just making the kicks, man. That was really important for his confidence, kind of under the radar today. Yeah. Frankly, it probably was obvious that last week was going to be a bad Dominic Zavada game, considering what he looks like in pregame warmups. Exactly. Exactly. I'm totally with you, man. I'm totally with you. So, where are you at? I know we're going to do a midweek episode on the preview episode. You're 3-2-1. The Eagles have lost to the Panthers. We don't have, at the time of recording, a Cowboys game or a Commander's game. They're the prime times. Where are you at in terms of stock up, stock down on believing the Giants can win the NFC East off of this kind of loss? I'm stock down because these are the games that they need to win because they're going to be playing much more difficult opponents down the line. I agree. I agree. However, don't you think the team deep down has a little more upside if we get sort of the JJ. McCarthy we saw in the fourth quarter? No, one. Yeah. If we get the JJ. McCarthy that averages 20 yards per completion. Well, not just that. You know what I mean? The offense is not a one dimensional, one trick pony with JJ. McCarthy. That's all I'm saying. I'm leaving today upset they lost, but I'm also leaving today maybe more excited that the potential for the JJ. McCarthy ride starts sooner than it would have been if we dragged our feet with the Jameis Winston stuff. No, for sure. You just had to win these games. You had to win these games. It won't surprise me if we come on here next week and we say Texans 24, Giants 13. Oh, it wouldn't shock me if it's 31-10, honestly, the way the Texans are starting to get going now. I agree with you. In fact, if you ask me right now, I almost bank on a loss next week. And now CC. Mohegan needs a post-game x-ray, so there you go. On what? His hands from holding all day? All right, so we'll see you for a midweek show. If you're still here by the end of this, oh boy, do I appreciate you. I love you so much. That's the ride with the show that has over 1,000 episodes, and we do this three times every single week. There's going to be ups, there's going to be downs in life, in football, and you're going to be there with us. So I appreciate you. If you can like this show, subscribe to YouTube. We're close to 41,000. Remember, it was just a little while ago that we were celebrating 40,000. Talkin Giants is growing, and we're all growing together. All right, we'll see you on Wednesday for a midweek show. Let's go Giants. It starts today. Let's go Giants.