GIANTS SQUAD SHOW: New York Giants and New Orleans Saints THRILLER in MetLife

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No waiting, no fluff. Subscribe on Amazon Music and never miss a snap. I am Brandon Olsen, and we're here for a funeral, Gene. The not losing streak. Yeah. I'm Coach Gene Clemons, and did you guys enjoy the JJ McCarthy experience? Everything New York Giants every week. Breaking down all the big hits and game-changing plays from the G-Men. The way only the Locked On Podcast Network can. Get ready and squad up. The Giants Squad Show starts now. Welcome to the New York Giants Squad Show. I am Brandon Olsen. Joining me is Gene Clemons with the Giant Issue Podcast. Gene, you mentioned it. JJ McCarthy Show. Before we get to that, this episode of the New York Giants Squad Show is brought to you by FanDuel. Make this your most rewarding season ever with FanDuel Rewards Club every week. Check the FanDuel app and see what's waiting for you. I can tell you this, just for me personally, what was waiting for me was MalikNeighbors hitting his receiving total for me. I thank you very much for that one FanDuel. But Gene, you mentioned the JJ McCarthy Show. For those who are listening and were not watching, which is lunatic behavior by the way, if that's what you're doing, Giants were down a lot, came back when JJ McCarthy came in. It was of course a bunch of soft coverage and just shot plays. It kind of just felt like they were like, F it, someone is down there somewhere where there was weak neighbors. Charlie Jones with an insane circus catch. Let me ask you Gene, did you enjoy the JJ McCarthy experience? I enjoyed it as much as I like watching, like somebody get stats and garbage time in a game that you're probably gonna lose. Like that's what I enjoyed watching guys make plays that they hadn't made all day. Like all of a sudden people can jump now. All of a sudden people can get passes that are a little bit higher than what it was when they were thrown to them. I enjoyed watching the Saints almost pull defeat from the jaws of victory. I was really hoping they did, right? Like I was really hoping it worked out that the Giants won that game because my opinion of what I saw would have been the exact same as it is now. I'm not out here to lose my mind over this loss because last week I came over here and said, hey, do not underestimate this team or any other team. The Giants are not good enough to do that. This felt very much like we're better than them, so they should just lay down. The Giants didn't take advantage of stuff early, and then when things snowballed, they snowballed negatively for the Giants, where everything before that had snowballed positively for the Giants. What I saw once the change was made at quarterback, which I still don't even agree with making the change, I just took it for what it really was, which is somebody is going to put up some, if they're halfway decent and deserve to be in the NFL, they're going to put up decent numbers versus a coverage that is built to just not get beat over the top and give up a bunch of yards and get out of here with a win. Yeah, this was again, a game where, I mean, first off, the middle eight kind of killed you there. That was a brutal end of the first half, going into the second half was rough, where you had a, in that middle eight, you had Giants field goal to make it 10-0. Then Daniel Carlson, 58-yard field goal by the Saints to make it 10-3. Then a touchdown to Bryce Lance to make it 10-10. And then Alvin Kamara, 31-yard touchdown, 17-10. And that was how the middle eight concluded there. A game where, I mean, it felt like- Can we go back to how it was 10-0 and not 14-0? Absolutely, yes. Can we please rewind to how that happened? Because you decided, once again, to take a hot dealing Jamis Winston out and put in JJ. McCarthy to run a QB sweep or a QB read option play that totally kills the momentum of what you have going on there after Jamis Winston the last time he was in the red zone led you to a touchdown. I just want to point out why we're at 10-0 as opposed to 14-0, which I think changes things as we keep going along with why that middle eight was so bad. Yeah, are you not a fan of doing that, just randomly bringing in the back quarterback? No. You like doing, Gene? No. No. No. I'm going to ask him. I hate it so much, Brandon. I hate it so much that I posted a video of every throw that Jameis Winston had the last time that the New Orleans Saints played the New York Giants. And the Saints did the same thing to Jameis Winston. They brought him out to bring in. Was that when they started Taysom? Taysom Hill, they would take him out to bring in Taysom Hill. Now, Taysom Hill, they actually used him, and so they had success with it. But within the second half, they kept doing the same thing. The opposition kind of keyed in on it. They ended up losing that game to the Giants because they got conservative or they started going too much to it. And they essentially neutered Jameis Winston within that game. I felt like I didn't need to see this game. I was encouraged at the beginning because it seemed like they went, okay, let's try to get Jameis off to a warmer start, right? And it seemed to work to a certain extent after that first drive he was dealing. And then they did that, and the results of that was a field goal. And I'm just like, you guys don't see why that's a problem? Like you don't see where that's an issue? Yeah, I think, because I see in the chat, someone mentioning he's a notoriously slow starter. Yeah, but I don't think that was necessarily the case today, the slow start, right? It was the first play, you lost two yards on a completion, and then it was in completion, in completion, then you come out again, and it's a touchdown drive with 60-ish passing. I'm just estimating that, 60-ish passing yards. Gene, I'm going to say this because I am in a lot of group chats with Giants fans and I am on social media. It's a thing that's been brought up. JJ McCarthy, is he your new starter? Yeah, if you don't want to be a playoff team, of course, yeah. Absolutely put him in as your new starter. Pete, what are we not understanding about why his performance was his performance? Literally, New Orleans said, hey, take all the yards you want as long as you don't get it in the end zone. The difference is, the New York Giants have two legit elite level receiving options out there. They're not secondary level receiving options. They are some of the best at their position. You can put Malik neighbors next to any wide receiver in this league. He is on par with them. You can put Isaiah likely next to any tight end in the league. He's on par with them. It's not like this isn't magic. So all of a sudden, we just start throwing up yolo balls to Malik neighbors, yolo balls to likely a prayer to Jones that gets answered because the DB was goof and just let it bounce around like that. The same guy who, by the way, the same wide receiver that kept the ball should have been cut at half time for what he did with that return. But I digress. You're sitting there watching him deal. And in that moment, you're thinking to yourself in this blowout game, oh yeah, no, JJ. McCarthy is the answer. He should, you guys are really going to sit here and tell me that you do not believe that Jameis Winston could have done that exact same thing if you would have just left him in the game. And this, and by the way, in order to have narratives go the way you want, this is why you pull Jameis Winston. Because if you leave him in and he gets a rhythm going, he's going to do that same thing. The multiple interception thing is a normal Jameis Winston thing. He tries to do too much. It wasn't good. The first interception, I'm still not putting on him. I think Malik Nabors should have jumped and caught the ball like he did in the fourth quarter. It wouldn't even have been that high. It was right over him. It was thrown high. He could have jumped up and caught it. He didn't. It was intercepted. The second interception is all on Jameis. I don't know what the hell he was looking at. Cool. Great. Fine. You bench him after that in what is supposed to be like a can't come back game. Guess who else knows you can't come back? The New Orleans Saints. And then they played like it. They stopped blitzing. They stopped rushing five and bringing six. They played show coverage and you had success. That is not something that tells me put like, put this dude in over that dude, because I've seen the prolonged version of that dude, and it's not better than the prolonged version of this dude. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Like if JJ McCarthy starts next week, Brandon, I'm not going to come on here and go, man, I don't agree. I'm not going to continue to wallow on, hey, you should put Winston back in. I'm just going to sit back and observe. And I won't do what giants, other giants creators and media members and fans do. Every time JJ McCarthy makes one mistake, I won't tweet, my God, this is the jament. This is the JJ McCarthy experience. You all, he's so inconsistent. You got to put Jake Hayner in or some other ridiculous moves. Please don't put Jake Hayner in. Somebody might say, I'm going to just judge JJ McCarthy on a game in, game out basis. Did he do well today? Did he not do well today? If I'm just judging him on what he did when he came in, like, do I have an issue with what he did? No, I have no issue with it. He's athletic. Lean into your athleticism, dude. Go forward, not east and west because you're not that fast, right? Go forward. It's the same stuff that James was doing. He was throwing up, giving his guys opportunities to make plays. That's the same thing that James Winston was doing, right? The only difference is there is a level of management and understanding and how to move when things are clicking that James Winston has, that I just don't think JJ McCarthy has. One interception could have easily have been two or three, and he got away with some stuff, but that's cool because every quarterback gets away with stuff. But if you're telling me, oh my gosh, this is proof that it needs to be like JJ McCarthy going forward, I'm good with that. That's just ridiculous talk. And I know what the people in the chat are saying, and I just don't care. I don't agree with you guys. It's okay. We can disagree and still be cool. That's what I talk about over at A Giant Issue all the time. We can come over there, we can have an issue, we can disagree, we can lay out our sides, and then we can still be cool. We can still be friends, we can still be PC. We don't have to call each other ridiculous or say glazing or whatever ridiculous stuff that goes on. We can just disagree, and I disagree on this. I don't think you bench Jameis Winston in that situation. I think you let him lead through the loss, and I definitely don't think you then pull him for good as a starter off of one loss when you're three, two and one on a season, and this is the first real legitimate dud game that he's had because the other three were in rain, and the fourth one was him coming off the bench. Yeah, I think, and I'm not even saying JJ can't be good or better or anything like that. I agree with you that Jameis, if you're still thinking, oh, playoffs, Jameis should be the guy. I just hope that this isn't like, oh, well, look at what JJ did in that game. And from a fan side, I know fans are going to do it. But I mean, from an actual coaching side, I hope this isn't like, oh, look what JJ did. That's what will get us over the hump, like that kind of confirmation. You want to hear the ridiculousness that's going on? They really are blaming Jamis Winston for why the rushing attack isn't working. They're blaming Jamis Winston. In their defense, Jamis needs to be, like you need that mobile threat so that you can pull someone away. Is that the argument you're making? Yeah. How are the Rams able to run the ball then? Because last time I said, Matt Stafford is not a running threat, right? How are they able to run? How are the Bengals able to run? How are the Steelers able to run the ball? Oh, man, Aaron Rodgers ain't running nowhere. He ain't pulling the ball. This offense, if it's a downhill power running offense, please explain to me why a quarterback being able to pull the ball in a read scheme has anything to do with a power running offense. It doesn't. The bottom line is you have an interior with a rookie right guard who is getting beat. He looked bad again today. A center who doesn't move bodies off the line of scrimmage and a left guard who is a finesse pass blocking left guard, but not a run blocking left guard. Oh, by the way, your left tackle is playing through injury. Then you got back up, your backup tackles who I think are actually good, but they're rookies or rookie and a second year guy, right? Like they're backups for a reason, right? I just don't understand how they put this at the feet of Jamis Winston as if Jamis Winston is supposed to make the Russian attack better. Like blocking makes the Russian attack better people. It's that simple. Yeah, I think we're fully in agreement on that stuff. I understand some of the just like argument of JJ brings more mobility. I mean, I can't dispute that really. But I don't want that to be the reason that I'm deciding my starting quarterback in the NFL, at least college, maybe college. But in the NFL, that's not the argument that I'm making. We're going to talk about this. I mean, we've not talked about anything other than quarterback, and I'm sure it's going to come up again at some point during this. But we're going to talk more when we get back with the Locked On Giants Squad Show. Welcome to your most rewarding NFL season ever only on FanDuel. How rewarding are we talking? More rewarding than a touchdown with time expiring. More rewarding than an 18-point comeback. Maybe even more rewarding than an offensive lineman catching a touchdown. This season, FanDuel is making the excitement go beyond what happens on the field to the all-new FanDuel Rewards Club, featuring exclusive offers, surprises and more every week. Check the FanDuel app to see what's waiting for you. Make this your most rewarding season ever with FanDuel. Visit fanduel.com to get started. Well, Gene Clemons here with me, Brandon Olsen with the New York Giants Squad Show, part of Locked On Podcast Network. And Gene, I think if the games keep going at the rate they're going, I think I'm going to die because it just feels like the Giants want to be just like cardiac. When JJ came in, I was like, all right, this thing's over. And I understand why the Giants got back and close in the scoreboard and why it became a game. But it just like, when it happened, I was like, all right, this is, we're here, we're doing this. I will also, I have a question that I'd like to pose to you. Not that it's a firm stance that I have, but it was an idea I had. When the Giants got to fourth and one and there was 12 seconds left, would you have considered just saying, hey, let's just plow JJ up the middle real quick, keep everybody tight, spike it then, and so a few seconds and just, you know, at least then you have like a throw away opportunity or not enough time for that in your opinion? No, I thought it was, I don't understand, I didn't understand what, because I was listening to the broadcast because I wanted to see how like homer it would sound, right? Like, I didn't understand the whole 12 seconds is on the cusp of not being able to run a play and spike it. Like, I thought you could have just thrown a quick pass, gotten lined up and spiked it and had one more shot. And that's what I, I would have loved to have turned that into two, into, into, into two plays, not into one play. And I think there may have been, there may have been like the thought process by the people who called the play to have it be two shots at the end zone. It's just Jason McCarthy held the ball too long and you can't hold the ball long in that case. But I'm, I'm sure that's not his fault. Like, like he's, he have nothing to do with that. It was all on, that was all James Winston's fault, right? Because now James has watched, now James, he wasn't watched last week or the week before when he led the team to champ, to, to, to wins. But this week, when he has a bad week, he's watched. And the only reason I want him to play is because he's black, right? That's, that's it. That's what, that's what it is. So like, I thought there was an opportunity to take multiple shots at the end zone. I personally would have loved a short pass, line up, spike it, and then go for the end zone. I'm not mad at what he did though. Like, he bought time. And if he had just a fraction of a second longer, he may have seen everybody go to likely, and neighbors come screaming across like wide open. But that's tough. He's being chased. He's looking. So he says, let me give my six foot five, tight end, who is great in the red zone and has a big catch radius, an opportunity to go up and get the ball. And he just wasn't able to do it. I contend there may have been somebody holding on to him, but you're probably not going to get that call. Or at least the Giants are not going to get that call. What, the Kansas City Chiefs have gotten that call? Maybe, not the Giants, right? I wasn't mad at what he did with it because he gave his guy the best chance to have success. I do think it was planned to try to have two shots. He didn't like what he saw initially when he hit his backdrop. He tried to buy more time. It didn't work out. I personally would have said, hey, let's take a short, get down, clock it. Let's go for the second one. Because now you're in, now he's in position where he could possibly run it. If you get another like seven to eight yards, I think he's close enough where you might be able to run in a touchdown if everything breaks down. I just thought he was a little too far back to do that with his feet if that was going to be the case. I did want to bring up the running back rotation, because someone mentioned it way earlier in the chat. Cam Scadaboo played six snaps, was the last number that I heard. Don't remember seeing him after that. Najee Harris had more snaps. Devin Singletary, I believe, had more snaps. We know Tyron Tracy had more snaps. That seems to be the rotation that you're rolling with at running back, or at least Cam Scadaboo has to work his way back in, even when he was in there. He did not get a carry at all, he was out there blocking. With this running back rotation, how do you see this, I guess I'll say, playing out between the four that you have available in this backfield? Yeah, I don't like the way they're utilizing this. Here's what I really think. If you don't think one running back is like the alpha, then go get a back that you think is. I believe that you have to have an alpha and a beta in a backfield. You have to have a guy that is the guy that you give the ball to. Give these guys a chance to get a rhythm, to get a flow. I don't care who it is because my truth is, I think that Najee Harris would do a good job if you consistently gave him caries. I think Tyrone Tracy would do a good job if you consistently gave him caries. I think that Cam Scadabo would do a great job if you just consistently gave him caries. I even think Devin Singletary would do a good job if you consistently gave him caries. You know why? Because I've seen them all do it within the past 12 months. I've seen them all have opportunities and do well with it. So I believe in all four of these backs. Are any of these four backs like game changers? There's no Saquon Barkley here, but they knew that. That was their trade-off. How are these guys supposed to get a rhythm if you're giving them one carry, then taking them out, then giving them another carry, or you give them two carries in a row or three carries, and then they don't play again the rest of the half. How are they supposed to get a rhythm? How are they supposed to get a feel for how their offensive line is blocking, how the defense is playing them? They can't do any of that if you just keep shuffling them out. I don't want to hear they're not good enough. You have to give them the opportunity to work themselves completely out of the rotation until you're down to one guy that you really believe in and then let that guy run the majority of the plays and the other guys come in, the spell or in-spot duty. Yeah, I think we're not watching them. First off, I will say this. Tyrone Tracy had one hell of a rep in Pass Pro. In this, I remember I texted Ross Jackson with Locked On Saints who was at the game and I was just like, I'm so jealous that you get to watch these backs in Pass Pro because Kamara had a great one. Tyrone Tracy had a great one in the second quarter as well. Tyrone Tracy, it was nice to see him get at least a little bit involved after we haven't seen much of him after his pre-season. Kam Skadabu, four fumbles this season, so that's why he wasn't involved. We know that. And I mean, you had a Charlie Jones. It feels like turnovers at this point are just the only real constant that we're getting from this offensive side of the ball. Whether it's again, whether it's picks or fumbles, it feels like turnovers, which by JJ. McCarthy also threw a pick in that game. I don't think we talked about that. But it feels like turnovers are just killing you right now if you're the Giants. Yeah. And again, I'm not even mad at that. I'm not even really mad at the McCarthy interception. No. Like I'm not. He's out there trying to throw you back in the game. The second interception that would have been if he didn't throw it so low. He's trying to do what's being asked of him. Hey, go out there and sling the ball around. I'm not mad at him for that. And again, like I've said, if the decision is, hey, we're going to go with JJ McCarthy next week. I'm not going to sit here and constantly bag on JJ McCarthy every time there's one mistake. Every time he has three passes that go awry. Every time he doesn't hit an open receiver. Every time he misses somebody. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to judge him in the totality of the game. I wish people would have done that with all of the quarterbacks and not just with certain ones. But I get it. James Winston was never the guy people wanted to be their quarterback. He's the guy that's the fun loving. He just wants them to be. They just want him to be in the locker room. They want the sound bites. They want the goofy speeches and all that stuff. They never really wanted him to be the quarterback. Right? I didn't want him to be the quarterback. I wanted Jackson Dart to be the quarterback. But there is no Jackson Dart in this world. And if I'm trying to make the playoffs, I'm going there. I think that with all of the turnovers that we've seen, they come in bunches. Right, Brandon? When things are going bad, people get a little tighter or they get looser, like too loose. And turnovers come in bunches. So, I'm not, again, if we, if this was the Giants over here at one, three in, or two, three and one, I might feel different. If this was a one, four and one team, I might feel different. Funny enough, I wonder how people would feel that this was a four and two team, right? If the Giants had actually won last week and had not been attacked, if it was four and two, would they feel the same way? Because I don't think they would. I think people would be a little bit more willing to give the benefit of the doubt for a bad game if it was four and two that we were dealing with and not three, two and one. But it is what it is. I'm excited because even through all of the turnovers and all of the... Because I'm sure we're going to talk defense here soon, but like all of the defensive miscues, there was never any quit. There was never any I surrender. There's just people trying to make plays. And I appreciate that. It's fun to watch. I know you're talking about, you know, they're going to give you a heart attack. I just enjoy watching them fight to the end. And when it's over, like, hey, let's reconvene and figure out where we go from there. Yeah. Also, I want to make this clear. Not complaining about the heart attack. I'm all for the adrenaline when watching these games. I'm just, I'm not complaining about it. It's just, if one day you don't get the link to join this, just know that the Giants have finally, have finally- They did it to you. They've done it in. Yeah, they got me. So just send a text to Patty or something. Be like, hey, he's dead. Don't know what to tell you. But I will say- I hope I never have to do that. Oh my God, that would be so awful. Hey, they keep it up. Never know. But one thing you mentioned was the not quitting. It was just guys trying to make place. That was the thing. I saw it in the chat a while back. Someone mentioning, like, oh, I don't care about playoffs. I care about developing the not quitting mentality. Somebody said that? Culture. Yeah, it says, Playoffs are irrelevant to me. I want to see a no quit team, young players developing a culture change. Seeing that for the most part. Are you? Yeah, I feel like you're- and I don't think this person is saying like, oh, playoffs don't matter at all. I think they're just saying like, oh, I want to see no quit team, young players developing a culture change. It's like, that's what's happening. Like, you're seeing that just because you lost the game, doesn't mean you're not seeing that anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Well, a shout out to them for being so open to losing, and what comes with losing, because sometimes it's hard to watch a young team developing and learning and all of this. Because I don't want to belabor the JJ point, because it's going to be enough of that throughout the week and it won't be me. Except for this next pod that I have. If you're trying to think about the future, how in the world do you see JJ McCarthy in your future? You don't want like a decade long backup? You don't want Jackson Dart as your guy. You think JJ McCarthy is going to sit around here for the next 10 years and be like the backup to Jackson Dart. He still thinks he has a chance to be somebody in this league. That's why Tommy DeVito is gone, right? Like if that's the case, they could have just kept a Tommy DeVito and called it a day. But at some point within here, like the JJ McCarthy experience is going to come to an end because you want Jackson Dart. Like the future is Jackson Dart. The future is not JJ McCarthy. He could play Sam Donald good for the rest of the year. The Giants are going to do to him what the Minnesota Vikings did to Sam Donald when he came back from injury. That's how it is. We've seen that that's how it goes. Nobody is going to be out here saying, JJ McCarthy is Jackson Dark. At least I haven't seen it. And so like what like I'm just about this year. I'm only invested in this year with this crew because next year is going to look different because the quarterbacks back next year. So however, what, huh? I feel like I know, come on Stanley, if you know what, God bless y'all. I digress. I'm sorry. I should have never. Yes, JJ might beat out Dark next year. Y'all are right. I'm sorry. And Stanley, I'm not picking on you. I just knew that Gene would get a reaction out of that one. Yeah, I think that when we talk about it, it's like honestly, no matter who's starting a quarterback, young guys are developing, they're getting better. This team is not quitting, right? Like they're getting better, they're not quitting. You're seeing that. And you were seeing that before halftime of this game or before the fourth quarter of this game when JJ came. Like you saw that before, you're seeing that. That's right, if that's all you care about, there's no need to complain. Like, congratulations. You're good. This is a great season right now. Yeah, like this is a hell of a season. Like, Malik Neighbors is clearly healthy. We don't have to worry about that. Isaiah Likely was clearly a fantastic signing. Still in the prime of his career. You've got some, you've got some, some dogs at DB. You need more because they get oft injured and you need some better backups, right? Like, but everything is trending to the right direction. You're lying back and cords doing exactly what you wanted them to do. Your, your edge rusher, the guy that y'all think is the next Lawrence Taylor, is, is coming off the edge and, and causing a lot of pressures. Hell, even Kayvon Thibodeau was, was playing really hard, really tough edge defense. Up the middle looked a little shaky and I'm sure we're going to talk about that here soon. Yeah, we are about to get into the defensive side of the ball here. Especially when we talk about young guys playing well, getting better, the no quit mentality. I feel like, I feel like defense brings quite a good bit of that. We're going to talk about it when we get back with the New York Giants squad show. What's going on everybody? My name is Ross Jackson, host of the Locked On Saints podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at Brooklyn Bedding. 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Football is finally back and that means Sundays are about to get a whole lot more interesting. Every week brings new matchups, breakout players, big performances and plenty of storylines to follow. PricePix is bringing out its best offer yet. New users who can sign up and get a $150 in lineups if they win their first $5 lineup and PricePix is now available nationwide. Same. Go ahead, put JJ McCarthy in your next line up. Download the app today and use code LOCKDONMFL to get $150 instantly in lineups. If you win your first $5 lineup, PricePix run your game. Welcome back to New York Giants Squad Show. I am Brandon Olsen. Joining me is Gene Clemons from Giant Issue Podcast. The defense today, 34 points, 319 yards, a backup quarterback came in, and then that same backup quarterback left against this defense, because so Tyler Shuck could come back in. Gene, what were your overall thoughts on what we saw defensively today after, I mean, last week was an insanely aggressive performance this week. Still aggressive, but dialed back a bit. I was surprised that they didn't start Blitzen to try to stop the run. I thought they were getting killed up the middle. I thought they did a good job of holding the edges for the most part. There were a couple of times where they gave up a soft edge, where the end went inside. They didn't have anybody to immediately fill that edge. But I thought for the most part, Kavon Thibodeau on his side was doing a good job of setting the edge. They just didn't get enough on the interior to keep people, or to keep the running back from picking up extra yards. They just didn't tackle well. They missed a lot of tackles. I think that's what I was surprised by. I was surprised by how many missed tackles, how many, oh, he's gotten by the arm, but he wasn't able to bring them down. He dove and wrapped them up, but it slipped off of him. I haven't really seen that this year, a ton of just like flat out missed tackles. The Rams game was not flat out missed tackles. The Rams game was receivers getting cooked, right? And not getting any pressure on the quarterback. This was not that case. And if we're really digging into the numbers, Tyler Shut didn't play a great game. He just made timely plays. Like, he didn't play a great game. He was barely over 50% in his completion percentage. They weren't able to turn him over. They weren't able to get off the field on third downs in a few respects because of those missed tackles. And because of him being able to get out and make plays with his legs and pick up yards with his legs, which I still don't understand why they haven't figured that out. Hey, we're playing athletic quarterbacks. Let's make sure we're paying attention to the quarterback when he takes off. But overall, they didn't quit. I know that the Saints were trying to run the clock out. And so they got really passive, really conservative in the fourth quarter, which allowed the defense to harden. But there's a lot of times where a defense will just fold underneath that and go, you know what? It's over anyway. Let's go ahead and give up the booty and give up another touchdown or another yards and just let them run the clock out. And the fact that this defense continued to fight gave me like a good sense of who they're going to be and who they're going to continue to be all year. It's just a shame that they got so far behind on the game script. That second interception, if it had been, like the fact that when Winston threw that second interception, the next play was a touchdown. By the way, on the backup cornerback who was in there because people are hurt and the depth isn't what it should be, like the fact that it flipped that quick to another touchdown really took away the opportunity for the Giants to win this game late. But also, it might be part of the reason why the Giants had an opportunity to win this game late, because that offense really, really kind of slowed down and said, hey, let's just try to get out of here. But shout out to the defense for kind of galvanizing in that last part of the game, the fourth quarter, and really making it difficult on their offense and giving their offense the ball back. We just need to see that more in the beginning. I think the problem I'm having right now, not in the beginning, excuse me, more when the wound opens up, they've got to be able to carterize the wound faster. That's what I mean to say. Because at the first half, there should not have been 10 points on the board. I don't put that on them, totally. Yeah. That's what I was gonna bring out. They gotta know how to close it up when things are going bad. And I think they just leave the wound open a little too long. They left it open a little too long versus Washington. They left it open a little too long in this game. When it opened in the Tennessee game, they left it open a little too long. It made it closer than it should have been. And even in the Arizona game, I think there was opportunities where they should have shut it down. They left it open a little too long. So just try to condense it, be more succinct, make mistakes, and then don't make the same mistake two or three times. I think they'll be on the right track. Yeah. And I think part of where people are, I'm going to say complaining, but not in a shut up sense. But that is the most assaints have scored all season. And so people are going to say, oh, well, you allowed more than they've scored. It's important to remember also when we talk about this defense, that it's not like the Saints had these long, sustained drives that they were scoring on consistently, right? Their first score came, it was a 16-yard drive to kick the field goal, right? And then the fumble on the ensuing kickoff, where you then gave up the touchdown after that one, and I got the 10. Then there's a sustained drive coming out of the half for the Saints. Then there was a 50-yard drive coming out of there. Then pick led to a field goal. Second pick, like you mentioned, led to a touchdown. Third pick, they fumbled, you got it back. I, it was just like, I don't, I know people see 34 points and are like, oh, your defense played like ass for lack of a better term. But I do also think that while I'm not saying they played awesome, I do feel like part of it was like you got shot in the foot for a little bit. You had a shutout first quarter and half, we'll say, because the Saints didn't score until the middle eight. So you had a shutout bit there. Of course, they missed a field goal to give you that. But I do feel like this is also like you got shot in the foot for a while. Then, yes, like you mentioned, I had to cauterize it sooner, but I don't want this to seem like, oh, because the Saints scored 34, now we suck on defense again. Yeah, and that's what I'm afraid of just because of the fan base that we serve, right? Like the fan base that we serve will lead you to believe, will lead you to believe that, oh, this was all a facade because we've played bad teams, right? Except that, that, that same, that same Washington team that, that you tied and should have beat, beat the Super Bowl champs, right? That apparently that doesn't matter for anything. When you're talking about this stuff, like that giant, I'm sorry, that Cowboys offense that just shut down, that's an elite level offense. They put up points and yards on everybody else since, we're not even talking about their defense, but that offense, which is what this defense plays against, had their hands full against this defense. That's something to be said. And not for nothing, this New Orleans offense has been formidable all season. Right? So like, we don't have to, we don't have to dumb down who this team is in order to justify a loss, right? Just say they didn't play up to par. Like the Rams, the Rams have lost multiple games. You think they're in there going, we don't have a chance to win a Super Bowl because we've lost multiple games. They still believe they're a Super Bowl team. They're below 500. Right? They're below 500. They still believe they're a Super Bowl contender. And yet, like, they don't have the Giants record. Yet, when I talk to or I see Giants fans talking about things, you would think that there was doom and gloom and everything is bad. No, man, you're above 500. Your team is competitive. Your team is entertaining. And can we and can we stop right there? When was the last time the New York Giants were entertaining week in, week out? Say it's been a while. Twenty two, right? Like it's been a long time. I'm going to enjoy this entertaining team who I don't care who's at quarterback. Continue to give me entertainment and I'll be happy. And if you continue to give me entertaining football, I'm of the belief you're going to you're going to end up on the positive side of these wins and losses more than a negative. But this defense has to find a way to number one, find like manufacture some depth because their defensive backfield, when they go down and the depth gets a little bit wonky, you can tell the difference immediately. Yeah, they're going to have to manufacture depth and they're going to, they're going to have to find some something somewhere, whether it's somebody getting released, somebody that's on the street, they got to find something somewhere. I don't even know where it is. I don't know if it's at corner, it's at safety, it's at linebacker, as a depth piece, it's at another edge rusher. Did you see Jahad Ward when he was coming in? Do you see how unathletic Jahad Ward look? Jahad Ward did not look hella athletic. When he was standing up on the edge one play and I was like, why is he standing up on the edge? Then he didn't move when the ball was snapped. He was frozen. I don't know if he messed up or if he got confused or what. It just didn't look good. And I was like, there's a better option out there on the street. There's somebody somewhere that just will come in and give like, we need to see some of these dudes that we saw in the preseason that were just playing with all heart and nuts and just athletes and motors. We need to see some of those guys to be able to fill in in some of these situations. Because that's what the depth is going to get tested for this defense, especially as the war of attrition continues to go on. And I think that's where you'll see the defense start to really diminish is when they can't replace like their starters with viable options to back them up. Yeah. Also, I want to continue the depth conversation, but I do want to just really quickly revisit you mentioning like, oh, like your team is entertaining, like they're winning, they're entertaining, they're this, they're that. It's like also, I do want to remind people, and I know like this isn't necessarily the mindset that I like going into things with, but like your division doesn't look the best right now. Like the NFC East does not look like they're world beaters this year. And so it might be ugly at times, but it's been entertaining and you have a genuine chance at winning your division. You're still atop your division right now. Anything can happen today, and you're still going to be atop the NFC East. And I can't remember the last time that I've been able to say that about a Giants team of like, hey, even when things go poorly, you still can walk away with an NFC East division title. And I think that should at least just be acknowledged. We're going to keep talking about this depth specifically at Cornerback because that bits you a little bit. Bits you just a little bit. And we'll talk about when we get back with the New York Giants Squad Show. Running a business shouldn't feel like you're trying to connect a bunch of systems that were never designed to work together. There's one app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow none of them talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. Odoo is an all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together in one powerful platform from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing. Everything works in one place. Odoo is one platform to manage, grow and scale your business. The best organizations know that success isn't just about talent. It's about having everyone working toward the same goal. And that's true in sports, just like it is in business. Great organizations win because operations matter. That's why you should get Odoo. Odoo is one platform to manage, grow and scale your business. Try for free today at odoo.com/lockedon. That's odoo.com/lockedon. And thank you once again for making the New York Giants Squad show your first listen of the day. We are available free wherever you listen to the podcast and on YouTube, part of Locked On Podcast Network. I am Brandon Olsen. I'm also with Locked On Gators. This is Gene Clemons with the Giant Issue Podcast. And Gene, of course, we saw Greg Newsom the second leave the game, believe it was concussion symptoms that they said with him. So hopefully won't be out for long. But cornerback is, I'm going to say, a little thin in this one after injuries have piled up. But Ben Deontay Banks still looks like he's an improving young player. But corner, an issue right now when we saw them target Nick Jones on, I believe it was the last touchdown, what was right at Nick Jones in the back of the, or front of the end zone on the right side. Yeah. So it's not just that they lost Nusim, where's Hood? Because he's already out. So it's like Nusim goes down, there's no Hood to bring in. Now you're not talking about the backup, you're talking about the third string, fourth string guy, right? So it's just tough, right? I'm not mad at him. What do you want him to do? That's not his bag. There's a reason why he ain't out there on the field right now, right? Like there's a reason why you don't start that guy. I love the fight, I love the ferocity of some of the backup linebackers, but if they come out there and Arville Reese ain't out there, guess what, BitDog, it ain't gonna look the same, right? It ain't gonna look the same. And so like, I'm just hoping that they continue to work on and flesh out and develop this talent on the back end because they're gonna have to. Like if this is the rate in which the defensive backs are going to get injured, if every week it's gonna be like a coin flip on whether or not a corner back is out there, you're gonna need to have multiples of them to be able to combat teams that are gonna say, A, we need you to prove you can stop us from throwing over the top, right? And so I think that's the problem there. Especially if you're going to be a defense that wants to be incredibly aggressive. At the point, I know again, we dialed it back. We only really saw that for five quarters, including last week and then this week, of just being insanely aggressive. But you also can't necessarily rely on being able to do that consistently through injuries. But you mentioned, and I will also say this, I hate that the Titans gave Alante Taylor a big contract because healthy scratch this week. And I was like, oh, well, that'd be a guy you could talk about trying to bring in. But not going to happen, obviously, because that contract is un-offloadable for the Titans. But like Stephen just put in the chat, Nick Jones had coverage. Alante just made a great catch. If Jones turns his head, he could. Oh, man. Can we start with the ifs? He's just not- That's playing corner. That's what we're saying. This isn't a diss. Nobody's dissing him. Yeah, no. This isn't us saying, oh, it's Nick Jones' fault. We're saying Nick Jones is a third string cornerback. On a third string cornerback, he's not winning that rep versus a guy who has potential all-pro ability in Chris Elavi. That's it. It's not a diss. I can be out here and tell you that if Brian Burns was there, that they would have been able to get Tyler Shuck on the ground maybe one or two times. He ain't here. The backups are the backups. So now what? That's all I'm saying is, when you have to turn to the backups, now what? What can they bring to the table? And when you put pieces in place to try to combat that, and then those pieces are no longer in place because you brought in Paulson Adibo that we haven't seen. He's on a milk carton, right? You brought back Deontay Banks, which none of you wanted. And now he's the best cornerback on the team. Maybe the best defensive back on the team, but he understands the play of... Javon Holland. Oh, Javon Holland, excuse me. Thank you. You brought in Newsome, your drafted hood. Three of the four cornerbacks that you expected to go to war with are not in the game. They're not here. You're going to struggle. Sorry, it's just the way it goes. Tyler Nubin's out. For everything you can say about Tyler Nubin, Tyler Nubin has been coming down and hitting. Guess who missed a few tackles today? Jason Pinnock. It's not a diss on these guys. It's just an understanding that when the number 2s come in, you're going to lose something and when you lose something, it's going to affect the overall play of your defense. That's it. Yeah, I also think it's important to note that Nick Jones has spent the overwhelming majority of his time with the Giants in the slot. He's not even been a perimeter corner. He's been in the nickel for most of his time with the Giants, and he's out there, Chris Olavi, of all people. I think it'll help if more people accept that in football, you can have the right call, you can make the right play. Sometimes people just make a better one than you, especially when you're out there for 72 plays. You're not going to win every rep, you're not going to win everything there. And I think that's one of the things that, it would just, like, life would be a lot better if we could just accept that. Just like, yeah, like, you can do everything right in football. And still lose. Yeah, and still lose. Like that can still happen. You think those defensive backs, when they saw Malik neighbors go 10 feet high for a pass today, you think they thought they were going to lose that rep? No, it's Malik neighbors. Dude, you're not as good as him, right? Chris Olave is one of those guys. You know, his only issues as a pro has been concussion issues, or else he'd be one of those dudes that you were talking about right along with all the rest of the really, really good receivers in the league, right? And so they have guys, and their guy made a play on your third string cornerback. He didn't make this play on your first string quarterback, because if you remember, before the starter went out, their receivers weren't really doing much. There wasn't really much motion happening on the outsides, right? It wasn't until he went down, they immediately started attacking that side and trying to get stuff to pop on that side. I don't think that's by mistake. They knew, okay, they got the third string dude in there. Let's go to work over there. Yeah. Also, we know how we feel about PFF and their validity. According to their charting, Greg Newsome targeted once today and then he left the game. He was doing his job out there. Nick Jones, again, like I said, a guy that has spent most of his time playing the nickel and then had to go out and cover Chris Olave, who, like you mentioned, if it weren't for concussions, would be probably viewed way more, I'm going to say threatening, even though I don't think threatening is the right word to use, way more threatening there. Gene, before we wrap this up, you got the Houston Texans next week at Houston, Houston coming back from, Houston coming back from London playing this morning. What are you looking forward to with this game next Sunday? Or are you looking forward? I'm not looking forward to this game. I think they're catching, they're catching a really hot, like really pissed off Texan squad, because who knows they have no business with the record that they have right now. Yeah. Which is insane still. Yeah. CJ Stroud seems to be back to like elite level CJ Stroud throwing up the ball. They added another weapon which somehow unlocked like Noel today, because Noel went crazy. So they're going to have to deal with like four legitimate pass catchers. At receiver, a tight end who's good. Their running game isn't the greatest. But like the Giants rush defense has to show up to make them one dimensional. But I think they want to be one dimensional. And their defense, I want some of y'all to answer this. Is this the defense you really want JJ McCarthy to make his first start against? Like is this the one? Because their cornerbacks are sticky. They play a lot of press. They disrupt routes. He's going to have to hold it. Their defensive line and linebackers like have legitimate pass rushing ability. And our offensive line for the Giants has not played to their most optimal. Like is this really the one that you want to throw JJ out? Or do you want to leave an erratic Winston out there to do his thing, knowing that he understands about playing against teams when he doesn't have any protection? He dealt with it his entire career in Tampa Bay when they didn't protect them at all. That'll be interesting to see. If it is the JJ McCarthy show, I see it being a situation where you get a lot more design runs. Remember, I said that if you're going to have him doing these design runs, you got to let him play more last week. So if he's out there, I expect these design runs to work better because I'm hoping somewhere they stop trying to run him to the perimeter. He's not that type of fast. He's not Jaden Daniels fast. He is get ahead of steam, go north and south fast. They need to run him on some QB power, not on zone read and zone option. They need to run him on some QB power. They need to add more RPO options in for him. Real legitimate RPO, not like zone read that's just masquerading as RPO, like legitimate run pass, not run run, and then make it look like it's supposed to be a pass. So I think if they tailor that game plan, the way I wanted them to tailor the game plan to Winston, they need to tailor this game plan to JJ McCarthy, if he is the guy, to allow him to go out there and get comfortable. And maybe we see a resurgence in the rushing attack because they don't try to be a powerful player. They try to be a power running team. They try to be a zone. They try to be a read dominant team, which is different than a power running game. Like a read running game is different than a power running game. I know some of the people in the chat don't understand the difference. And that's why they keep telling me that you need a quarterback to be in a power running offense. Gene, JJ is fine. He can outrun Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter. Like he could totally do that. No, he can't. I don't want people to think that. He cannot do that. It's like if they can't outrun the Giants edge rushers, then they're not going to be able to outrun the Texans edge rushers. The Texans edge rushers are elite. They are elite. Please run north and south. Do not try to go east and west versus this team. It is a recipe for disaster. Yeah. Just again, just to use PFF there. Second in the NFL in pressures, Will Anderson Jr. Seventh in the NFL in pressures, Daniel Hunter. Edge rushers, getting after the quarterback, especially with a banged up offensive line. Yeah. And I will say this, as a Florida fan, like yes, Florida just went into Austin, Texas, and beat the Texas Longhorns, formerly ranked number seven with a backup quarterback. My take going into that game was, and he was forced to play because of injury, my take going into that game was, if you're planning on starting the guy, there's good situations and bad situations for a guy to like get the start. To your point, I think this is the bad situation. This is the bad one. Even if you do want to say, hey, we want to go to JJ, give him another week, just if you want to say that. Give him another week or give Winston a short hook, right? Give it to Winston, let Winston go. And if he throws a pick, I don't know, whatever the line is, right? Be quick with the hook. I just don't think you put JJ McCarthy out there and allow that Houston Texans defense to getting planned for JJ McCarthy. I think it's a bad way to roll right now. He needs a little more confidence. I promise you, in that film room, he's not getting praise for some of these throws he was throwing. I know y'all think I'm just being mean. I'm really not, because he threw some really nice passes. He made a couple of throws that were on time and in spots where only his guy can do them. And then he made some yolo throws. He made some throws that if Jameis Winston throws that ball, y'all go, oh my gosh, this is why he's going to give me a heart attack and blah, blah, blah. It was the exact same experience with JJ McCarthy as you would have had with Jameis Winston. And that's not why you want to put JJ McCarthy in there. If you're telling me that it's going to be YOLO throwing and the interception, touchdown, like Jameis Winston is better at that world, that he's better at that world. If you're telling me it's going to be ball control, more like with Jackson Dart, ball control, take the shots when you see them, pick up the first downs, keep the clock moving, then that is what JJ McCarthy needs to be able to do. Do not send him out there to be Jameis Winston. It's going to be bad for him. Yeah, they're just going to be like, hey, you know that thing you did against the Saints when you were down by like 17? Just go out there and do that first quarter to start the game. Just go heave that thing. Don't think that's the approach there. For Gene Clemons, I am Brandon Olsen. This is the New York Giants Squad Show. There we go. Just a double team today. That's all it was. It was just a double team today. We will be back. There's a midweek squad show. There's us next week. We will be back immediately after the hopeful win against the Houston Texans. Hopefully, we get back into the win Brandon Olsen hosts. We at least don't lose. Hopefully, we can get back there. But for Gene Clemons, for the New York Giants Squad Show, I am Brandon Olsen, part of Locked On Podcast Network, and we'll see you all next time.