Insanely improbable Giants comeback ends in a .. TIE?!

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Download the Game Time app and create an account for $20 off your first purchase. Term Supply. Hey, what do you say, ladies and gentlemen? Dan and I are excited to introduce our Buy Me a Coffee page. We've had a lot of listeners reach out and say, Hey there, Bob, we really appreciate what you do and want to support the show. Well, here's one way to do that without big corporations taking, I don't know, 30 percent of the cut of your generosity. Just head over to www.buymeacoffee.com/bigbluebanter and chip in if you'd like to support us directly. Every contribution means a lot and it helps keep the show going strong. We appreciate each and every one of you. Thanks for listening and have a lovely day. Welcome back. It's the Big Blue Banter, New York Giants Football Podcast. I'm Dan Schneier, joined as always by my co-host, Nick Falato. What a wacky, wild, weird game for the New York Football Giants. My emotions have went on just a wild roller coaster there, Nick. I mean, it was from the point of we're getting blown out in the fourth quarter. This team frickin sucks. I can't believe I got my hopes up they can fight and be competitive and win this nasty, grindy NFC East Division 2. Holy shit, we're making an insane comeback. Holy shit, we blew it in our first possession of Hovertime because Zavada missed his third field goal of the game, including one from inside 50. I know, look, Scadaboo's gonna get a lot of heat for this fumble at the end, Nick, but Zavada should be getting equal heat because if Zavada hits a 48 or 7 or 6 yarder, which for NFL kickers should pretty much be automatic at this point, given their leg strength and where we're at with NFL kickers, the game's over and that never happens. Two, we got the stop, we drove right back down, and all we have to do, because this time it would have been like 41 or 42, excuse me, for Zavada, which is no gimme, but you'd hope at that point he makes it. And then we fumble, and then it ends in a tie in the stupidest way ever by Washington, just handing away a loss for the Giants. So it was just an insane game for the Giants. Oh, an insane game, dude. Lower coaster is the best way to raise it. And good, this is the Jamis Winston experience. We were texting each other, let's do this offense looks absolutely terrible. They have nothing going on. They get no push at the point of attack. They cannot run the football. I have no idea what they're doing with their running back rotation, which we'll get into here in a little bit. Jamis Winston seems off once again. Yes, it's bad weather. I get it. But what are we going to do? Defensive laps. Why can't we spy Jaden Daniels? Why can't we fit the run against J'Kori Kroski-Murray? Tyler Newbon is getting toasted again. All of these emotions. And then the start of the fourth quarter, the Giants are down, what, like 27 to 13. Right. And I'm like, oh, it's one of these games. Right. But I got to say it, man. And I know this is a tie and it's awkward and it's weird. And there were so many just peculiar things that happened throughout this game. I felt like the Giants were out of it, but this team doesn't seem like they get out of it. Like we had three touchdown drives by Jamis Winston, a backup quarterback who looked like shit for most of the game. Thirteen plays, 63 yards, nine plays, 75 yards, ten plays, 72 yards, a pair of touchdowns for Isaiah, likely, a touchdown for Malik neighbors. And the next thing you know, it's like this team battled back, the defense is rallying, they're forcing punch, they're punching, Jane Daniels in the face, they're getting pressure after him, they're hitting him, they're blitzing him, they're dictating. And I'm like, dude, this team is resilient. And I got to just applaud coaching for that. And there's a lot I can chastise about the Giants coaching staff in this game. Overall, if we just want to take a Dan Schneier term, look at it from a 30,000 foot standpoint, the Giants are out of this in so many previous coaching staffs. They were way out of games like this, and they're just still in it, and they're able to battle, and they're almost able to win several different times. And then it was Washington who fumbled the bag, and I don't know what the hell they thought they were doing, and let the time expire in a easy field goal range, and the Giants escaped Washington with a tie. It's one of those games where I'm like, wait, did we just witness this? This is something we're gonna be talking about from years to come, this type of massive mistake by the Washington commanders coaching staffer, Jane Daniels or whoever made that mistake in overtime. Yeah, they gave us a tie when we could have had a loss. We gave them a tie when we could have had a one. It's basically a win is what happened twice with Zavada missed field goal, his third of the game. I mean, some of those were, you know, 50 plus in bad weather. But this ain't going to be what we thought it was going to be. Stout doesn't miss three field goals in a game equivalent of what Stout would be doing, right? Stout is the best punter in the NFL. Zavada is not. We were happy. We were getting excited. This ain't that good, guys. There are a lot of better kickers in the NFL. Let's be real about this. He's undrafted UDFA. We overhyped the shit out of it. You can't miss four, what, three field goals in a game, including an under 50 and overtime considered like an elite option at field goal as a kicker in my mind. But hopefully it gets better. Hopefully it's fine at least. And it doesn't turn into a spiral like we've had in past season with kickers. But you mentioned two things I want to unpack. The first being that when it mattered in the final few possessions of the game, we saw the complete opposite of the Shane Bowen strategy for how to win a game at the end of the game. Shane Bowen would rush three, drop eight, and we lose every time. It was literally the total opposite from Dennard Wilson. He covered zero blitz twice in a row, Jayden forced it in completion, then he got a sack, and he got out of that possession. He brought it back again toward the end of the game. Once again, Jayden was forced to just throw it out of bounds. The Giants are starting to learn here, look, we are a man team, we're going to blitz and play man, and we're going to have to do it. More importantly to me, it's not just who they want to be in the first, second, and third quarter. I think it's who they want to be with Leeds and when trying to protect Leeds or get the ball back at the end of games. That to me is important that they don't go into a shell. Obviously, it burned them for the Jane and Daniels rushing touchdowns. That's what's going to happen when you play man. Like it is what it is. But like the fact of the matter is even when you don't play man or you have a spy like they had for Arville Reese in overtime, it doesn't even guarantee a stop. So it proves once again that blitzing and playing aggressive and man is still the better option because once again, when you drop seven or eight, there's no guarantee. And when you spy the quarterback, there's no guarantee. So I think that was the right strategy. I also want to applaud the coaching staff for adjusting in this game. The reality is this, for as long as Jameis Winston is quarterback and he should 100% be the quarterback next week, I won't entertain a single goddamn argument for otherwise. This guy threw for 320 plus and three touchdowns in the game where the running game did nothing. He was the entire offense by finding his playmakers and making some big time throws. Did he suck in the first half? Yes. But part of that is this, they finally figured it out and thank God they carried it into overtime, Nick, where they had two full drives, one lost by Esvada Misfioglu, the other by Stigatibou Fumbal, but they drove the ball. They figured out you have to be in the gun with Jameis. Enough of this shit. Stop trying to fit a square bag into a round hole. We don't win the line of scrimmage. We don't run Blackwell. The run scheme does not look good. We are going to win games if we go into the shotgun, we spread it out and we find matchups for likely neighbors and fields, and maybe Mooney, but mostly likely in neighbors and then some fields. That's the only way we are going to score points and move the ball. We are not going to get under center and run the football with a quarterback who defenses do not respect the ability to hold the football. I mean, I'm sorry to keep it and carry it. And with an offensive line, it doesn't move people. So we have to get completely away from that moving forward, in my opinion. If we come out next game or back to what we showed in the first half, under center, heavier personnel, we're going to be a shit offense again, because that's not working for Jameis. And what was working for Jameis is shotgun spread, isolate matchups for likely in neighbors and get them the frickin football. That's how we're going to move the frickin ball. That's it. And we can run better out of gun, too. When we went to gun in the second half, Scadaboo all of a sudden had two big runs and one key run toward the end of the game before his fumble. Why do you think that happened? Because it spreads the defense out and it makes it easier, in my opinion, for those guys to create something when they're not all jammed up in the middle of the field. We're not that team. OK, we're not the Bears. We're not a team that has an O line that can push people up front. So moving forward, I'm happy we carried it over to overtime. But I hope that's not an aberration for the Giants. Next weekend, the Saints and whoever else coming forward, we need to be a shotgun spread team on offense if we want to have any hopes of moving the ball. We are not an under center team right now, in my mind. Yeah, the Giants are still probably going to be playing. I think, yeah, especially with James Winston there. I'm going to put my glasses back on. No, not which for me, it's not with James. I would do it with Darder-McCart. Like, that's the problem for me. And I was happy in overtime they didn't do it. They didn't go back to what wasn't working the first half. But I just don't know if I believe in it. Yeah, so my point is, I think the Giants will still try to do this moving forward. They have the personnel and they don't have wide receivers, Dan. So they got to be in heavier packages. They could roll out 11 personnel with those three wide receivers all the time, but there's not going to be a rotation. Odell's not here anymore if they wanted to rely on him. And I think the Giants wanting to be heavy is still something they're going to try to operate, especially with Jameis Winston, since they can't get into the rushing plays that we know they want to use from the quarterback position, which they tried to do several times throughout this game with the JJ. McCarthy package that every time, pretty fricking disgusting. It was their worst coaching of the game. That was part of their path. It was getting bad. Yeah, it was getting very bad. And I mean, they had the penalty, the illegal shift. They had a massive tackle for a loss on a blown read by JJ. McCarthy, another one where he got strung out. Like every play was a negative play for the offense. There's no throws on any of those. It's not even like they set up a big passing play. No, they threw one screen and that was the illegal formation one that looked like it could have been a solid game too. But the Giants want to get JJ involved. But credit to James Winston here. Look, I was throughout the first three quarters saying like, damn, James Winston, you look like crap. This is sucks, and I was just kind of going in on it in my head. And then one drive touched down Isaiah Likely, just like, whatever, you know, we're still there. Another drive touched down Isaiah Likely, mounting drives, wearing the defense down. I think that's one of the reasons why the Giants were successful in running the football in overtime. The deepest was worn out at that point. They were on the field for much of the fourth quarter. And I also think Nagy, and I want to confirm this at the All 22 enrollment, did a few different types of things to keep the Washington defense honest when it came to running the football. And the Giants got right in the field goal range. And it's no guarantee that Zavada would have booted it, Dan. It's no guarantee obviously, since he missed three. But they were right there, and then Scadaboo coughed the ball out. And that sucks, dude. I know we talked a lot about the running back position. I didn't love the rotation prior to it. I know the Scadaboo fumble would suggest otherwise, but I didn't love seeing Nagy Harris in there and then get one yard. And then you had Tyrone Tracy. Oh, Tyrone Tracy Jr. has a role now out of nowhere. And he's going to be the Giants third down back. That's cool. Right. And then I was like, there was a point in this game where I was like, did I miss an update by somebody? Like is Kam Scadaboo out? Is he hurt? And I know it's, you know, I understand why people are going to be frustrated at Kam Scadaboo right now. I get that too. And I'm not the biggest Kam Scadaboo is the one A type of guy. I've been on this train for a little bit now, but he's still better than Nagy Harris, I think, in a lot of this. And I don't think you should keep him on that. I don't think you should keep him on the bench through the entire second quarter, like the Giants did. I thought that was a very odd way to bring about your snaps and to use your running backs. But then he coughed the football up at the end and that was a terrible thing and we can't have that obviously. But the running back position continues to be a peculiar usage, I think is one way to say it. A peculiar usage and underperforming outside of some plays though. Like, that big third down run by Scadaboo was a huge play on third and four where they pitch it to them outside. And the runs in overtime before the fumble was a big play. And it felt to me like once they were forced to go in to hurry up shotgun spread, they were better. And I'll say this, Nick, I agree with you. No team is going to be shotgun spread all the time and we're certainly not going to be able to do that. That's like Borough and nothing else. Very few teams are able to successfully run a game plan out of that for a long period of time. I obviously paid at Mannington. Different players throughout time have been able to do it. Jamis Winston won't all the sudden be one of those guys. But I swear to God, this team looks a lot better to me at a spread and sure they don't have a lot of receivers from a depth standpoint, but they certainly have by far and away, the two best players on offense are likely in neighbors. And it's not even particularly close. So to me, the best way to get them featured is to go shotgun spread, not to go heavy under center personnel. You can't do it all game, but you can certainly do it a lot more than they did in the first, second quarter and the third quarter. And they're going to have to. They cannot operate this offense like they did against the Titans, like they did even last week and like until the end. And like they did this week for the first quarter, it just doesn't work. We don't have run blocking to do it. We don't have the running backs to do it. And we don't, quite frankly, I guess it's just that. We don't have the running backs and the blocking to do it. And it just takes away likely in neighbors. As you saw in the first half, they were barely featured. They could barely find looks. And then when we go to spread, they're getting a million looks. Get them the football. It's the only way for me to move forward, in my opinion, if you're the Giants. Look, again, I'm not saying do it all game, but you gotta do it more. Yeah, I think they will. I think they adjusted when they should have, and it worked out for them. I think they rode the hot hand. From an offensive coaching perspective, there's things we could certainly nitpick, like the running back rotation. But at the end of the day, they- And the JJ packages. The JJ packages are a bit- It was really bad offensive coaching until it had to be. And then the big goal line package, too, with Aaron Stinney. I don't mind that, but they can't get anything going out of these bigger packages. And something that they did last week out of a bigger personnel package was 13 personnel, but they spread it out empty, and then they had neighbors that likely operate the middle of the field. That is a way I think that you can try to generate offense with that personnel package. But you got to be able to move people at the point. Yes, spread things out. You got to be able to move people at the point of attack. And it just does not seem like the Giants have that right now. I know this is a tougher run defense. I think they were like six in rushing yards allowed. It was a wet conditioned game where the defense was playing closer to the line of scrimmage. But overall, man, we just need to get more out of the running backs and the running game if it's going to be a massive part of our identity. If it is a massive part of our identity, to your point, Dan, you need to, like the play action pass has to work, right? And I don't know if it's working out of under center. Yes, I think, again, like through the season, there have been plays, I want to say, that it has worked. But overall speaking, that shouldn't be the primary way that we rely on getting the football to Malik neighbors and Isaiah. Right, and you could just see it, dude. Jamis is much slower when he's operating play action than Jackson Dart is or than even Daniel Jones was. Daniel Jones would snap his head around and look toward the defense. Jamis is a little luggy, you know, when he runs these deep, these play action shots, sometimes it's like, oh, the play's blown dead. When he's in the gun, dude, he sees it so much better out of the gun, Jamis. It's the straight up truth. He played the gun in Florida State. He's played the gun at times in the past with the Box and Brazilians. He's better out of the gun. It just is a simple fact. And I don't, again, I don't need it 100% of the time, but we are a much better football team when we're out of the gun and spreading it. Sure, if we wanted to be part of the identity, you can say, Nick, and I agree with you, then we need to be better up front at blocking and we need to be better with our running backs. But we're not, and we don't really have a true path there. Scadaboo is a better player, in my opinion, when he's out of the gun and he has his own space. And the other two, Nagy, don't even talk to me about Nagy. It is what it is with him, but I can't watch this guy play that much anymore. He's now our starter, it seems like. Tracy can probably operate a little bit without space, but because he's done so in the first few years, but we're not moving guys to the point of attack. And our running backs, do you see a path forward with Brian Hudson and Runyon and Bowe or Illuminore and an injured Andrew Thomas, as far as us being an under center team that wants to abuse Ricard and Smith? No, and then hit play action? I don't, man, I really don't. And so I think the smartest thing this coaching staff can do is look hard at this tape and look hard at what happened in the second half of this game and say, we need to change our identity moving forward if Jameis Winston is our quarterback. And we cannot get ourselves in these holes again by trying to square peg this identity that we are just not that team. We were in week one against the Cowboys against the worst defense in the NFL with Jackson Dart and the threat of him running and we're simply not anymore. Yeah, I think they are doing that though. And they did do that. And I think they will be adaptive. This coaching staff hasn't shown us anything to suggest that they are rigid with their ways of thinking. They adapt and I think this is one of the reasons why the Giants are resilient and they're in these games at this point. Like Washington, though, man, and we can get into just this game specifically and not the broader New York Giants and how they're operating. Washington was shooting themselves in the foot a lot in this game, too. They were trying to lose it. That's why I feel like it's like a cosmic, it's cosmic karma that they lost this game in some way, right? Like I'm laughing about it. It's comical, too, because it's like you guys were in so many situations that you continually shot yourselves in the foot. And then they're going to blame it on the refs with the Amique Robertson call that negated the interception that probably would have effectively won the game for Washington. And it might have been a bad call. I think it, yes. Was there a little tug? But we got hit with plenty of bad calls. Yeah. Was it a little tug? Sure. I don't think it was as egregious as like Jonathan Vilma made it. Like, Jonathan Vilma was like, oh, my thoughts are sucked. I'm like, there is a tug, there is contact. I would have been fine with it not being called personally as somebody who covers the Giants. But it's not like it was nothing. We've seen worse calls on pay banks this season. You know what I mean? So but it wasn't just that, man. How many false start penalties do they have in the red zone? You had the Rizul Douglas defense of hold against Isaiah. Likely yet, the third and seven false start later in the game that made it third and 12 for Jayden Daniels to overcome. You had Addafe Owe pulling Kim Scadaboo by the face mask. And was that or was that was that another bad call? Actually, I'm not sure, but I didn't know. I couldn't tell. There was one earlier in the other game, too. I can't tell if it actually was or not. Yeah, no, that the overall, though, my point is I don't have the penalty stats in front of me, but it just seemed like in really critical situations, Washington was sloppy. And in the most critical situation, they don't realize they don't have a timeout. I'm guessing I have to imagine the coaching staff did not want that to happen. I think the coaching staff might have wanted Jayden Daniels to take a step back and just throw the football out of bounds. That's what I have to imagine. They wanted one. It felt like they wanted him to center it for the field goal, and then they felt like he could have time to spike it. Maybe that, too, but it just didn't seem like everyone was running down the field. There was no time for that. It was such a crazy miscommunication. This is another... Look, the Giants didn't win. They get a tie, though, which is something, I guess. They still gained over 400 yards against a pretty solid Washington defense. They turned the football over twice, and they found a way to put themselves in a position to win this game several times. The penalties was 9 for 69 for Washington, and again, very unopportuned times. What were the Giants' penalties? 7 for 35 yards. Giants were 8 of 17 on third down. Washington was 4 of 12. The Giants' defense, that's something that we should probably get into next. We spent a lot of time on the offense, and it's starting slow, right? Like three plays into the game. Kory Kroski merits running for a 33-yard touchdown. Linebackers are slow to fit. Akoya gets blown off the line of scrimmage, and then Tyler Nubin is Tyler Nubin. If he is not precise with his angles, he is just not athletic enough to keep up with 90% of running backs to cut off that angle. That's just who Tyler Nubin is, and we know that. But he's still solid around, and I hope he's okay, because I know he got injured at the end of the game. But he has plays near the line of scrimmage where you're like, there you go, Tyler, and it's just from depth, man. The guy just can't do it. He can't do it in the NFL, unfortunately. But then they hunker down the Giants defense. Other than those man coverage blown, just not quarterback spying, Jaden Daniels, Washington didn't really do much offensively. Right. Yeah. And it's a linebacker play flying around like crazy. Abdul Carter is still a maniac. What was the longest reception the Giants gave up on defense? The longest reception the Giants gave up on defense? It must have been short. I think there was a catch and run by Chig that would have been 25. There was a big catch and run by Chig. What was outside of that? McClellan was 22. Yeah. And even that, like they didn't give up any 30 or 40 yard passes. There was really nothing downfield, I thought, working for Jane Daniels. They played a lot of man. And when you play man, you're going to give up some runs to the quarterback. But again, they also gave up a run to the quarterback when they had respying. So I think they chose the right plan there. I'm with you. This was a very encouraging day for the defense, especially when you consider how often they were on the field in the first half. I mean, the first half Giants offense trying to go under center and be run heavy and run on second and 10. We're just giving the ball back over and over and over again to this commander's offense. The defense sounded, you know, rang. It was even a turnover when James had that stupid fumble that that, you know, they had a short field and the Giants defense came up big in that one too, Nick. So I felt like this was an encouraging game for the Giants defense. Observe. The North American dad. 50s. Great polo collection. He enters his vehicle information on Carvana. An offer appears in minutes. Remarkable. He squints, reads it again, smiles and says, dang, that's a good offer. The highest form of approval. 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Now, there's a new generation of Triple Threats chasing the spotlight while figuring out high school. And if you grew up on the original, Daniella Monet, among others, is back. You can watch the next chapter of the Victorious Universe, meet the new class of Triple Threats in Hollywood Arts, the all-new series Hollywood Arts, now on Netflix. I agree for sure. I mean, Carter man with that strip fumble too. That's something else that they could have bailed the Giants out, right? They fell on top of it. He absolutely nails. I think it was Diami Brown who put the ball on the ground. And it's just like, dude, I do Carter and Arbel just flying around. Can't wait to watch the all 22 on both of them. But it seemed like the Giants were just in good covered for much of this game and they were passing and they were physical. And Drew Phillips is making plays in the Blitz now. Because that's the thing I like about Dennardwilson, man. We talked about Shane Bowen at the top of the podcast. Dennardwilson is loading up the line of scrimmage, dropping off, sending four sometimes, sending five another time, sending six sometimes, sending seven, doing just cover zero and trusting man coverage on the back end and dictating to talented quarterbacks in their home. I like that, especially in the conditions that we saw. And it's not all the time. He's judicious with when he makes these calls. And it seems like even though the Giants defense has started slow the last two weeks, they always regroup and they come together and they put the Giants in a position to actually win these damn football games. You're right. And that's exactly what we saw. But credit also to the Giants offense because that's the reality. And we talked a lot about them, but it needs to be said. I mean, the Giants were down 27-13 and had two touchdown drives out of Shotgun Hurry Up. And there were some big time throws by Winston. The neighbors touchdown, a few of those likely throws. There was an actual big-time throws by Jameis, who had 300-plus yards, three touchdowns and no interceptions in this game. Drove the Giants down twice in overtime. Once was not his fault. Savada missed a field goal under 50, and the other was not his fault. Scadaboo fumbled. So, I mean, I feel like the defense played a big role in this game, but so did the offense. And to me, it was more like the Giants were in a position to lose this game for two reasons, in my mind, Nick. One, they had missed field goals. Two, or I'd say three reasons for me. One, missed field goals. Two, they just didn't recognize what they were supposed to be doing on offense until it was late in the game. And three, they gave up a couple runs while playing man. The third one, I'll take every time because them playing such a pressure heavy, like aggressive game plan in a lot of man is what led to what we talked about before. No big completions, a lot of forced incompletions on third downs, a few more sacks than we're used to for this defense. I was willing to take those gambles. They just need to clean up a lot of the other stuff. They can't be missing field goals, three field goals in a game, honestly. And they can't be fumbling. They're fumbling like every game, dude. It's funny because it's ironic. They benched Tracy and they completely sapped his role and took it away until this game because he had a fumble in the preseason or two. Was it one or two? I forget. Two fumbles in the preseason. And now Nagy Harris has an insanely bad fumble last week. And Cam Scadaboo has a bad fumble this week. And it's like, all right, well, what's going to happen with those guys? Because Nagy did not see his role decrease this week after his fumble last week. If anything, it was the opposite. Nagy became the basic starter for most of this game until they finally said, this isn't working. Let's try something else and go to Tracy. And Tracy had a huge play on that third down. And then Scadaboo had those plays in overtime when they went to Shotgun. And it seemed like he didn't get penalized. So I wonder if Scadaboo is going to get penalized next week. I don't know where this coaching desk stands on the fumbling issue right now. Yeah, I would imagine he doesn't. But I would argue that Scadaboo's role has already been significantly decreased from at least what I expected and what we've seen earlier. And I think that just, you know, coincides with the rise of Najee Harris' role to discuss the running backs again, man. It's just I would hope that it doesn't decrease. And look, man, again, I've been pretty consistent on my Scadaboo's opinions. But it's he's our best running back. And he's the he's the he's the source of energy that I think this rushing attack needs if you want to run the football in the manner that we believe we do want to run the football. I don't really like the heavy rotation that they had prior to the Giants actually sparking this comeback. But, yeah, it's one of the more interesting and one of the more just different games that I've seen in a while, just from an emotional standpoint. I thought the Giants were basically down and out. And they were down 19 to 6 and they were down 27 to 13. And they end up battling back and almost winning this football game. And of course, it ends in a tie. Last time the Giants tied was against the Commanders in, I think, 2022. I think Sam Howell was their starting quarterback, if I'm not mistaken. I think that was 2022. But, yeah, divisional tie and a win. I'll take it out of two matchups. Better than a loss, right? Yeah, it was an opportunity to really take a two game lead on the East with two and own division. They blew that. But they could have never been in this, too, at the same time. So it's hard to say they blew it when they came back to me. Ultimately speaking, a tie feels like, in some ways, a just outcome for what I watched because the Giants were totally dominated, in my opinion, for most of the football game until they figured out they need to go to shotgun. Before that, there was just no solution at all, seemingly, on the offensive side of the ball. I'll say this, if you go watch that tape, I respect other people's opinions and you guys see the game differently than me and I'm certainly saying right now before any of this, I do not feel like the be all end all. I am just going by what I see with my own two eyes when I go back and watch the tape when I watch on broadcast. When I watch, I do not think Nagy Harris is a good running back to the New York Football Giants. I think he's hurting us when he's on the field, personally. I see no lateral bursts whatsoever. I see no moves. I see no yards after contact. I see no force missed tackles before contact. I see one jump cut that gets him lateral, I'm sorry, vertical and he can sometimes just like kind of power through it, I guess, even though I don't even really see him moving bodies post-contact or ever getting low. So to me, like, they have a running back problem if Nagy is planning to, they're planning on Nagy as the starter and Scadaboo is kind of this change of pace like he was today. And then Tracy has a change of pace like he was today or rotation. But yeah, it's eating on Nagy or whatever. That's a problem, dude. Like, that's a big problem for me. And as I said on the last podcast, I'm certainly interested in exploring the trademark and at the running back position. And I want to see what's available. And I'd like to see if there's anything we can do at running back, because if I've watched enough NFL, it tells me this, Nick, the one position I'm more comfortable putting into a new scheme that you haven't practiced with all year is running back over quarterback, receiver, any of these positions. Running back is the one where you could sometimes put a guy on a new team and he can actually just hit the ground running. So I got my eye on this. This is going to be something that's important for me moving forward, because I do not feel comfortable with a nausea lead rotation. I don't think it would be a nausea lead rotation. Like, Scadaboo had most of the first quarter. It's just he disappeared for like two or three drives. And that's where I was like, has he hurt? What the hell is going on here? I think it's still going to be Scadaboo's. I mean, the fumble could cost it, like you said, but I still think the Giants and JohnHarbaugh, they view Scadaboo as their number one back. It's just they want to really get the other backs involved. Interesting that they got Tyrone Tracy Jr. back. I think the lack of explosiveness of this offense is probably one reason, but he's also coming back in high leverage situations, but you benched him because he wasn't great in certain situations. Maybe it's a match-up thing. I don't know. It doesn't really seem to be consistent. It's a consistent thought process. Not to spend too much time on the running back position again, but I also think the rushing attack just in general is very important because again, it's the identity and also we saw the Giants. They brought JJ McCarthy in there not to sling the football around the field. They brought him in there because they wanted him to enhance the rushing attack, at least in this game. Now in the future. You're 100% right. Yeah. Maybe in the future that will change, Dan. Maybe you want to be better. You don't bring that package in to run every time. You got to throw sometimes out of it. Of course, but they just want to slowly ingratiate him into the offense. But it was a bad package. It sucked. Washington was never fooled by it whatsoever. It was a negative play every time, as we said at the top of the show. Every time. And when we say negative play, you mean legit negative play, like one yard or zero or two. Those are like drive killing type plays. I don't think you can bring that package back until you're comfortable. McCarthy audible into a pass or being able to pass the ball. I have no interest in that package unless McCarthy can throw the football at least 50% of those plays called in that package. I want to completely remove from the playbook. And again, I lean on it, but I do not think moving forward, the identity of this team should be a run first team at all. If they want to win football games and I stand by that, I'm just going to reiterate it one more time and move on from that. Now we go to the defensive side of the ball. I'm sorry, we hit defense, we hit offense, special teams in this game. We didn't see a lot of Jordan Stout punts in this game. So it wasn't like one of those days where he flipped the field for us or made like a coffin corner like it was the past two weeks. We did see a lot of Zavada and we talked about him a little bit. But it's not necessarily on my radar just yet, Nick, because he was eight for eight before this. But I'm just hoping this doesn't spiral for us because we've had really bad kickers lock in situations over the last few years that have cost us games. And I would say in this game, the kicker pretty much cost us the win in my opinion. You got to make that feel going over time. It's hard not to argue. I mean, it's hard to argue against that. I mean, he left nine points out there. Now, some of them were very difficult. They're tough. The overtime one, inside 50, I have no excuse for for me. Especially in that high leverage situation, you want your kicker to make that. Two of five. He did boot a 56 yarder, right? Three for three on his extra points too. But I'm right there with you, dude. It's crazy. This offense is so interesting, dude, because we talked a lot about the rushing attack, but the concentration of targets, it's probably neighbors in Isaiah, likely. They had 23 targets between. And they didn't get going until. 33 targets, Dan. But yeah, that's insane. And I felt like they didn't get going until the fourth quarter, almost. Like, how many targets did they have before the fourth? How many targets alone did those two have in just the fourth quarter? I mean, I'm not going to go back and calculate that right now. Not now, but I'd love to see. A lot, a lot. I mean, it was also comeback mode and all that, but still, like those two are the offense right there. And beyond that, the most targets was Mooney who had seven and he caught two for 14, had a bad drop on third and ten. I don't want to say bad, a drop. It was a hard catch, but he was a drop. James blamed himself for it on the sideline, by the way, which I thought was a good leadership moment. That's what he does, man. That's what James does a lot of the time. He said he had to put the ball out in front of him. It was behind him. But, you know, as, as you've said, and I know a lot of people agree with, if you get two hands on the ball, you got to catch it no matter what. So I respect it. And he was mad at himself, Mooney. Theo Johnson, like he's going to be, he's one of those, like, ancillary pieces. They need him. Yeah, exactly. And he had that beautiful adjustment on that catch on the back shoulder. That was great, dude. Took a low hit to his knee. It was crazy that he makes the tough catches and he can't make the routine ones. It's insane with Theo Johnson. That's back to back weeks of him making two tough catches. And you're right, though, he has to be an important piece of this. To me, the way I look at it, Nick, just looking at this offense as a whole and taking a step back, Theo Johnson's more important to this offense to me than Ricard or any of these running backs at this stage of where I'm at watching this team. When they try to run it through Ricard in the backs, nothing is happening. They don't have the linemen to do that. But when they spread it out, now Theo has the seam. And a lot of the times, if teams are going to start to take away neighbors and likely, Theo's going to have that matchup up the seam where James is going to have to quickly get it out there and James can throw the seam. So to me, that becomes like the third most important option at this point in the offense. Yeah, and just to further your point, we know this too, because whenever the Giants are in goal line situations or in the red zone and they go heavy and they try to run, it never, it's not like... You don't have the guy. It gets snapped in and I'm like, please, done. Like right away, I'm like, please, done. The play is done. We know it's done right away. I felt that way about every one of these McCarthy packages today too, the play is done immediately. But you're right about when we try to go heavy in the red, we just have to recognize as fast as possible, we're not this team that we want to be. And then can you do something about that? Can you change it midseason? Today they were able to, and it almost won them again. But will they think about that moving forward? Because if not, I think we're going to have a lot of first half, a lot of offensive efforts like we saw in the first half, because the Washington defense is pretty good, but it's not best in the NFL good. Yeah, you're 100% right. And it's not the end of the world type of thing, because you could still use... I know, you stay in games by being that way. Yes, exactly. But to your point, I think the Giants should at least explore finding maybe another wide receiver that they could throw the football to. You know, that you trust to throw the football to if you want to run more 11 personnel to get Jameis going, to use more shotgun, to not be under center as much. But I also don't know if, you know, all the doors are closed. How committed are the Giants to Jameis Winston being their actual starting quarterback? Like, we don't know that. They went out and they traded for JJ McCarthy. Not like, yes, it's depth, it's all this. But like, if Jameis Winston continues to struggle, I'm sure Greg Roman and Matt Nagy would like to have a quarterback who does provide the offensive mobility. Because I do know that that will alleviate the burden of the rushing attack on the offensive line and the running backs. So Jameis, and we know this Jameis Winston experience. If it keeps going like this and it stays down a little bit too long, JJ can come in there. If they can get anything going with JJ McCarthy, I don't know if he will concede that, or I don't know if he would concede that job back to Jameis Winston, essentially. I don't think so either. Well, it depends how he plays, right? A lot of that does, yeah. But I'm sure Harbaugh, veteran coach, they don't want to vacillate between starting quarterbacks either, you don't want to do that. So you got to make sure that that chapter of Jameis Winston is over when you turn the page to JJ McCarthy. My point, though, is when the coaching staff, when they're in the room, how committed are they to Winston? Or is it like, you know, they've had these conversations, they traded for a quarterback, you know? Like, it's not like they traded for him, they're like, oh, he's never going to start, we're fine with Jameis Winston. No, they have an idea in mind on what could happen. And you're 100% right about that. And I think that idea in mind is with fitting what they want to be as an identity, but they may have to look themselves in the mirror, Nick, and ask themselves, what just happened these last two weeks? The Giants were down 14-3 to the Cardinals, and they let a comeback win through Jameis Winston and the passing game, 2-44 or whatever it was, 2-50 in three passing touchdowns. What happened this week? The Giants were down 14 points in the fourth quarter, and they let a comeback through Jameis Winston, 300 passing yards and three TDs. What is your best offense going into the year? In your mind, in their mind, it was, have the under center, run play action, use heavy personnel, use the threat of Jackson Dart's legs. And I do believe that was their best offense. We saw it in week one. It was better than what the Jameis offense could be, even in these two comeback victories. But now that that's gone, you have to ask yourself, what is our best offense? We have three options. We could try to run the same shit we were running with Dart with Jameis under center and try to play action. We can spread it out and have Jameis in the gun and try to get better matchups for fields, neighbors and likely. And you asked who that third guy could be moving for. I think it can be fields. I hope it can be fields. I think there's a much better chance of it being fields out of spread shotgun than it is of us going under center and getting anything going with our run game and our running backs. Or, your fourth option, go to McCarthy and try to run the dart offense. You have three options remaining. It's Jamis in the offense that was made for dart. It's Jamis in the shotgun spread like we saw in the comebacks last week and today in the end of the game. Or it's McCarthy understanding your dart offense. Those are your three options right now. My bet is the Jamis spread offense out of the gun is going to be their best bet to move the ball and score points and get matchups for Likely and Neighbors, your two best players on offense, potentially fields. We'll see where they go with it. I just hope they don't go back to Jamis under center for a majority of the first half if the offense is struggling. Look, you can start the game with it and hope it works and you hit a play action off. But I just don't think this guy operates that well under center, Jamis Winston. It's my own personal opinion. I think he's much better out of the shotgun and that's like night and day watching him. Yeah. He's too slow. I think we've nailed this point at this. Do we have anything else on the game that we want to touch on before we get into some supers? So we hit, well, I guess the offensive line, I would say it continues to disappoint. I would say at least now pass production wasn't that horrible in this game. Like the fact that the Giants were able to go shotgun spread and in hurry up mode in two straight possessions and the old line held up shows like the pass blocking still pretty solid at worst. The run blocking though is almost the opposite at this point. So, as we move forward, we will have those question marks about the loss of Carmen Brasillo. If Andrew Thomas is playing healthy, Brian Hudson replaced John Michael Schmitz this week. We will check out the tape, but I don't feel like it goes great in the run game from Hudson. How could it have been, right? We lost on all our inside runs, right? To have a single fun inside run today, maybe toward the end of the game, we were in shotgun. That was about it. And this is another point to that. You don't have to stop running the ball just because you're in shotgun spread. You can run out of that. Okay, that's an option. But the offensive line to me, now, as we turn, we might not have Jermaine Luminor moving forward. It might be Marcus Bowe. I felt like Bowe held his own specifically in pass production. I'd have to look at it further to know. So I guess that would be the final thought for me. We've talked a little bit about, I think we said everything about the run defense, I thought was good outside of that one long run for Joukory Kroski, Merritt, right? That was another 22-yard gain that comes to my mind. But overall, no one's really having much success running up the middle unless they're attacking Akwae or Darius Alexander. It seems like Reader and Harris are just dialed in. They're just dialed in. What are you laughing at? Laughing at Anthony Broz in the chat. He said, dude became a golfer. He's talking about me. This is pretty funny. Dude became a golfer and he's blaming a rookie kicker in a rainstorm over a guy fumbling an OT. How can I take you serious? I never said scat doesn't deserve blame for this. I actually said quite the opposite. There's plenty of blame to go around, but I think if you're a kicker, no matter if it was rainstorm or not, and it wasn't even raining by the time we got to overtime anyway, you got to make it inside 50, especially when you've missed two already. If you want to be considered an elite kicker, if you want to be considered an average solid kicker, you can miss three field goals in a game, including 150. But I get it with the golf. It's definitely hard to play in the wind and rain in golf. I've done it before, but you got to make those kicks. Yeah, and it's also just like the coaching staff trusting you, right? The coaching staff put the trust in the kicker. And that's a good thing that the coaching staff has that much trust in a rookie kicker. They spend all this time with them and all that kind of shit, but he just didn't come through. So now the Giants coaching staff has to adjust going forward and be like, man, I don't know if I... It's third and 10. Do I want to just take the four yards to set a 4.56-yard field goal, or do I got to go for it to try to get this first down? And that's a more aggressive mindset. Maybe that will... It's obviously all dependent on what's going on in that respective game. But that's still something... You don't want to not earn the trust of your coaching staff in those situations. And in this game, it does seem like it didn't really benefit Zavada at all. And what did you think, Nick, about the play? Any follow up on any of our corner play? You touched on Nubin and your thoughts earlier there. Banks and any thoughts there? They were losing these quick slants and stuff like that, but there really wasn't a lot of space, it didn't seem like, for the Washington receive. A lot of this will be confirmed on the All 22 tomorrow. But overall, I came away saying, yeah, the cornerback played well in man coverage, just lost sometimes to Terry McLaurin, who's a talented veteran wide receiver with a good release package. Yeah, I think you nailed that one. And look, I think Zavada will be fine. I just don't think he was helpful in this game specifically. He's going to have some good games and bad games. It's not Brandon Aubrey or Cam Little or some of these other guys that are kicking field goals right now, in my opinion at least. As far as anything else on the game goes, any coaching you wanted to touch on outside of it? We talked obviously to Nagy and Wilson, but anything on the Harbaugh side that you thought was interesting in this game? On the Harbaugh? I just think the overall operation is one that keeps the Giants relevant in a game. So I applaud him, but nothing too pertinent right now is coming to my mind. I think you're right. I think they are a team that doesn't collapse when they easily could. And that's what I tweeted about after the game, Nick. I said, you know, I don't know how to feel about a tie when we should have won this game, kind of, but we also should have lost this game and it was a weird game. And I know in the past there were two other outcomes that happened for us. We've done this. How many times we talked about on the podcast, we go down 14 in the fourth quarter, Nick. Here's what's happened in our past. We've either gone and continue to get blown out and we get on this podcast super depressed, like, holy shit, the Giants got blown out by a one in three team. What the F is going on in our season at this point? We literally lost by multiple scores and it got worse against the one in three team. Then we had a garbage time touchdown at the end. Or two, we've made a comeback attempt and then blown it at the end in stupid fashion. This was the total opposite. Giants had to score two touchdowns. They went bang, bang, bang, scored two, and they had to get a stop. Even after they scored, it was 20-27-27, the commanders had an opportunity to go down the field and kick a field goal. The Giants got a stop by going to cover zero and blitz and Jayden Daniels, it's the total opposite, and I think that speaks to Harbaugh, who gets them prepared. And I feel like in the fourth quarter, we're the team that's not winded. It always feels like the other team is winded. Like we didn't lose this game because we were winded. They almost lost this game, the commanders, because they were winded and we just had a bad fumble at the end, which by the way, was also a good play to the Washington defender. When a field goal kicker misses a kick, it's only him. When somebody fumbles or drops a pass, there are other factors in it. Just to be clear about something like that, I mean, it's the only, it's worth saying. But yeah, I feel like that was good on Harbaugh. I mean, it's excellent on Harbaugh. It also speaks to the overall environment that he is cultivating here. Because again, the Giants went down 19 to six, and then they drove 13 plays 63 yards to make it 19 to 13. But then the commanders did the same, eight plays 81 yards, a touchdown, 27-13. That's in the fourth quarter. Usually that's like deflated, we're done, this game's over. No, nine plays, 75 yards, touchdown. Still need another touchdown. A three and out with minus four yards with Washington commanders and then a 10-place, 72-yard drive where the Giants tied it up. And just like you said, commanders had a chance, but what did they have to do? They had to punt after four plays because the Giants defense stiffened. So, and then the Giants put themselves in the field goal position, miss the field goal, force another punt, drive down the field, fumble. And then it was the end of the game situation. So it was a little bit of like a hot potato of like, is anybody going to want to win this football game at this point? Because we're just giving it away. But even within, yeah, exactly. Even within that mindset, you're right. A lot of like the Giants' screw ups were individual errors, right? Individual errors. It wasn't a coaching thing. It was more like you coughed up the football, you missed your field goals, stuff like that. But the Giants offense put the team on their back and 21 points in the fourth quarter, or at least towards the end of the third quarter. That's just something that you shouldn't bat your eye at. Yeah, that's that at all. And ultimately speaking, we were the team that made the comeback. We were the team that had better coaching overall in this game. We were the team that had better fight and endurance in the fourth quarter. We were in a position where we were trailing by so much and needed that because we came out with a bad offensive game plan, in my opinion, which was obviously confirmed by the fact that when we went to gun spread, we actually moved the ball. And because in general, like Jayden, Daniels just had a couple big runs. That's really it, right? Like we had the one Kroski-Merritt thing, they blocked up well and we screwed up and Newbon had a horrible angle on. And then Jayden had two long runs. And that's basically all the defense allowed. A chig, 23 yarder, a 22 yarder here to McClorn. And really, the reality of this game is the Giants kind of played a better game toward the end, obviously, but it's just frustrating to come out of this with a tie when I know they had two opportunities to win it, Nick. The Zavada missed under 50 and Scadaboos fumbled. Honestly, it's just both of these teams coming away from this, just being like, Tom, yes, we didn't win. We had so many opportunities to win, but it's just like, you know what? I watched the game, maybe neither team deserved to win. Yeah. It does show something, though, that like the Giants were able to use a backup quarterback and almost beat Jayden Daniels, who two years ago, Jayden Daniels took his team to the NFC championship game. And in the past, the Giants in these seasons, if they've ever had like a from or a lock or whatever it may be, a Glennon or a Taylor at quarterback, they've just been like losing these games consistently. They're not even in the game at any point. And if we want to feel good about just our overall situation as a football team right now at 3-1 and 1, which is better than what we're used to, ladies and gentlemen. It's better. Yes. Shane Bowen is in our defensive coordinator. Like Dennardwilson has put these defensive game plans together and has adjusted throughout the game to allow this defense, who is not without Brian Burns, who does not have Dexter Lawrence from last year. This team is competing and they're getting off the field and they're giving the offense with their backup quarterback an opportunity to win the game. The Giants are leading comebacks in the fourth quarter. Whereas last year, the Giants were collapsing in the fourth quarter with leads. Good point. That's a different mindset. It's a completely different mindset. It's a much better place to be as a football team. I'll look at that. I think they believe. I do think these players believe. I think you're right about that. I think they go into the spot with more endurance both physically and mentally at the end of these games. This would have been... I mean, if they... If Skyler doesn't fumble or if Zavada just makes the 48-yard or 46-yard or whatever it was before that drive happens, imagine coming out of this game where this team would have been from a momentum standpoint, from a culture standpoint, from a belief standpoint at 4-1 after being down 27-13 in the fourth quarter and then coming back to shockingly steal a game. That's the problem. We lost a little bit of momentum. But we can get it right back by beating the Saints next week. I think go 4-1 and 1 and you get it right back. We lost the momentum, but man, I feel like we also recaptured some momentum going down. Yeah, by not losing. By not losing. You see Tay Banks celebrate at the end. He ran off the field. He was so excited. Yeah. Celebrating a tie like a win was a little weird from everything I saw. But I think that was just like them letting their emotion out. Holy shit, we just fought all the way back. We did everything we could and then we still lose and the result is still the same. And then in a split second, it's like, oh, wait a second, we tied. We actually kind of won. In a sense, we had already definitely lost. After the Giants, after the Commanders, before the Commanders ran that last play, I was like, the game is over. And I know you were feeling the same way. Every Giants fan was like, there's no way. They were at the 22. That guy wasn't going to miss a 39-yard kick field goal. And as wet as the conditions were, he wasn't missing that. That doesn't happen for the Giants. No, it doesn't happen for anybody. I mean, 39 is 39. You don't see kickers miss those often. You know, once of every 15 or 20. So, yeah, man, let's get to some supers. Let's see what the people are saying. Very gooster. Thank you. You said this game was so Giants in the best and worst ways. You're right. And thank you for the donation. Absolutely. Jimmy, thank you so much. It's scat-a-boo has fumbled three times since Tracy has in game one. It's a good point by Jimmy Spliff. I mean, look, we're playing preferential treatment. At some point, if we don't get Tracy more involved, because Tracy was just dog-housed for his preseason antics. And now, I mean, scat-a-boo is lucky. We recovered two of those fumbles. I think that's what Jimmy said. We recovered two. This is the first we lost, right? From scat-a-boo? Yes, I think so. I think so, right? But five games and three fumbles, even if you don't lose the other two, is really bad. It's worse than anything Tracy did last year or in the preseason. I will say Tracy also, it was a pass protection was a big thing, too. Remember, in preseason, that's when Dark got excellent. Oh yeah, you're right, you're right. So that's something that we should keep in mind. That's another reason why he was doghouse. Chase is doing his job in his time. Yes, essentially. But I tend to agree, I think he should be, if you're going to use another running back, which you should, you shouldn't all be on scat-a-boo. It should be Tyrone Tracy Jr. Or maybe even Devin Singletary, who's an actor. That's what I was just going to say. I mean, the guy we didn't even mention is Singletary, right Nick? Yeah. Yeah. And I think Singletary doesn't fumble the football. He just does everything correctly. He reads it way better. I mean, I don't think Singletary has it. Dan, sorry to cut you off. No, go ahead. Devin Singletary has the best vision by far in this running back room. By far. By far. That's what I think. And the best jump cut, I would say. Yeah. And he's just, you know, he's just not low to the ground. Yes, he does, which to me is very important when you don't have an all line. Yeah. And he's just not as powerful as the other backs and he's not as exciting, doesn't really have that home run ability, but he just does everything correctly. So I hope that said Nick and I am hoping to see him as well. Yeah, I do think in the back of my mind, as I hear fans every week say, sky had a boost vision, what happened to it? It's so bad. And then I see this week, now she just getting nothing on every run. At some point, like, yes, like they do have, maybe there are some vision issues, but also it's maybe it is some individual running back edges. But also let's make sure we don't bury the lead here, that the run blocking is not giving them anything to work with. And everything's so clogged up that it's really hard to show off your vision when you're running into these spots. But the reality is, and shout out to guys like BBG, who I know we had on the show one week when I couldn't make it. We needed a running back upgrade in the off season. I didn't see through it. I missed that one. I'll put my hand up. But as I watch it now and I see Najee Harris have a role on this offense, and again, you know what it is, sorry to the guy. If you like him, you like him. But we could use something at running back right now. We really could, dude. And I don't know how we're going to get it at this point. Yeah, no, neither do I. I don't think the Giants really are going to be trading for one. So you're looking at free agent running? They might trade for one. I mean, what are you trading? The problem is there aren't many to trade for. That's the biggest issue right now. You're trading like a sixth, like one of your sixths? Because you don't have a lot of traffic. Well, remember when Barclay was a free agent, the Giants famously didn't trade them at the deadline. I think part of that was Mara not wanting to do it to the fans. But part of that was that they weren't offered anything. It's Saquon Barclay and the best they're get hearing is a fourth. So if that's the case, like I feel like the Giants can dangle a sixth or like a pick swap in the sixth, seventh range to get something at back. Yeah. Maybe crazy, crazy things have happened for sure. Jace, thank you so much. I think we put too much faith in Zavada. The guy went undrafted after all. Hopefully he turns it around after the scat fumbles way too much. Yeah, I think you're right. Cy, thank you. Got a little ahead of our skis there. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Cy, thank you so much. Hopefully, likely. But, you know, I'll say this, though, all right, about Dominic. He showed competency, which is something that New York Giants fans have been deprived of when it comes to the situation. The fact that we found an undrafted guy who was competent and had a big leg is I think we deserved the excitement. We just need to temper it a little bit now that we got very high. All right, Sy, Sy, thank you so much said, hopefully likely hobbling off again. The game was nothing serious. Can't wait to see the breakdown on the film. Neighbors Abdul. Yeah, I can't wait to see it. Let's do it. There was a play. There was a play that Orbel Rees had out in the flat where he was being blocked and he ended up making the tackle. And I was just like, that's just an insane individual effort. It was like similar to like what we saw from Antonio Pierce on that screenplay against the Green Bay Packers in the NFC Championship game back in 2007. It was similar to that from like a play style. It was like my favorite play of all time. Favorite defensive play of all time by any Giants player. Three blockers were out in front of that screen and it was just Pierce. And Pierce doesn't somehow make that play. It's a touchdown for the Packers. It changes the whole game. The Giants lose that game and we never win the 2007. So we never even get a chance to play Brady. That's how impactful. But I want to see the player you're talking about on film. It's not coming to me as I remember. And I agree with Cy here. Again, as I mentioned earlier, neighbors and likely, these are the guys that you need to run your offense through. The best way to do it is to go shotgun spread. You don't have to do it all the time, but you got to figure out a way to get them their 33 targets or something close. You know, doesn't that be 33? But it's got to be 20. It's got to be about 20 a game for these two. We're not a run team. I would like to see more impact for Darnold Mooney. That's not a coaching thing. He just needs to execute because I just think he's better than anything we've seen. I think it's been very underwhelming. And I do think that you have drop here, drop there. The conditions through a lot of these games have not been conducive for a player like Darnold Mooney. But I think we're going to have a big Darnold Mooney play coming soon, right? They had the one play they loved to run where James just kind of hung the ball out in the first half when he was playing real bad. And Mooney would have caught that. But he just hung up there too much. So throw a little at James's range right now. It almost feels like not out of his range, but just out of the range of him able to zip the football anymore. James clearly has lost a little bit of zip. I feel like watching him play. That was a good example of that. It doesn't always matter. Like the two neighbors' touchdowns over the last two weeks, up the seam. You don't really need zip on those. You can kind of just lay them out with anticipation and put them to the spot. Which he throws with, by the way. Yeah. And he throws with great anticipation. We said that when he came over from the Browns and he was our backup. We talked about that and he still does. And that's something we will lose if we go to McCarthy, in my opinion. So I don't think everybody's calling for McCarthy. Be careful what you wish for. James has thrown for 550 yards over the last two weeks. I'd be shocked if that was a three-game sample size for Hayner and McCarthy right now until proven otherwise on that front. If you look at the game logs for McCarthy last year, in a pass-first system with O'Connell, there are a lot of 160, 170, 180-yard games that did not move the ball a lot through the year consistently. And James has proven he can do that. So where were we going on before that? Was it Zavada? Was that where that sprung off of or no? We were talking about Mooney getting more opportunity. I wanted to bring up something else I said from the previous one, too, about Abdul Carter, because we were talking about our friend Rees's play. Abdul Carter had a pressure, and I think he drew a holding penalty, but where he split this double team, and all I see is like two arms of Abdul Carter split, and it was literally like, here's Johnny. I know what you're talking about. I was like, dude, this guy is insane. And then he had a couple of wins, too, up the arc. Huge wins. I need a couple of wins that he got held on in the neckhold thing, bro. Some of, okay, I guess the NFL lets you do this, but like, if you have a, if you're a right tackle with a fully extended arm, if that arm fully extends and it's around the neck, that has to be holding, right? Because on the last touchdown drive from the, from the, with the Daniels run, his second touchdown run, it was only, it only happened because they converted a third down after they, where they got held, where Carter got held and it just wasn't called. I just don't understand how that's not a hold. If you, if you're like wrapping your arm fully extended around somebody's neck, that, you know, like they just have to, I know it's hard to play tackle in the NFL, but you have to just not allow that. Especially if, especially if like the tackle is obviously beat, you know what I mean? Right. That's why you have to do that. That's why he's doing that. Exactly. I feel like I'm, you know, me, I'm big defensive pro defense football guy. And, and it does seem like every game we're talking about, you know, I love Drew Carter getting, getting held up the arc and it's just is what it is, I guess. I don't like saying that, but, you know, it's, it seems like the NFL is very complacent with the calling those penalties or not calling those penalties. In spite of Jamis slinging it, still think we see JJ ASAP. So up and down. And if we win next week, probably trade for Edge D line and or running back if available. Dills. Thank you so much. But yeah, I don't know if it's going to be as soon as possible, but I do see JJ seeing time probably sooner rather than later. If we get more, if we don't get 350 and three from Jamis Wednesday and we get more of the 170 zero and two, which we know Jamis has also unfortunately had in his arsenal. Yeah. If Jamis struggles, I think they'll move on. I don't think it's going to be ASAP. I would agree there was up and down, but I think the problem is it could just be down and down for JJ. I don't think we're locked into down and up for JJ. And I don't think we're locked into up up either. So I think the thing is we have to recognize and understand what JJ is giving us when he is giving us something. It's offense that we feel like we're owed it. We feel like we get it no matter what. But we really shouldn't feel like that as fans because we watched six years of football prior to this where we did not get any offense before last season. I'm talking about the 2019 through 2024 years. And so you got to remember back to those years. Never forget those years. And understand when somebody is throwing 250 and 300 with six passing touchdowns over the last two weeks, that is by no means guaranteed. I mean, we had like 15 passing touchdowns a year for six straight seasons. And we just had six in the last two weeks. So we have to take that in consideration as far as the other part goes here. And thank you, Dills, for donating. I do not think we're trading for an edge, maybe a running back. Generally speaking, we're kind of just out of ammo as far as trading goes. We've traded away. That's kind of where I'm at, too. You know, like we're out of ammo. We've done our things. As far as running back goes, I think you can do a pick swap, though. That's the thing. I don't think you can do that for an edge or a D line. But I think you can certainly do it for running. My thing with the running back, though, is like you have. I know we have four. You know what I'm saying? So I just think you just I think you give Devon a chance. I think that's your first try. Maybe it will work. But give allow him to have an opportunity at this point. Give him an opportunity like Devon Singletary. Well, like two years ago, his first year with the Giants, he like the Giants sucked. But like his advanced Russian metrics were great, dude. Weren't they last year, too? I thought I think they were like, I think they were down a little bit more down last year, especially like his yards were carrying things like that. But like we still we go through the film and I still feel like he's, I don't know if this checks out with advanced analytics, but that he's getting a lot with the opportunities that he's receiving. So you're not getting shit from your rushing attack right now. Maybe activate the guy who is a coaching favorite because of the nuances of playing running back position. Maybe you can give this rushing attack something different, maybe a spark. You're right, Nick. The nausea is giving us right now. I'm in for that, honestly. And I'm glad you said the name nausea because I was, I thought I was going crazy, but do you feel pretty similar to me? I know a little different, but do you feel pretty similar on nausea? I wouldn't say I'm fully out on it. I tend to agree with the lateral agility point. I think he falls forward through contact, which is fine, but I don't see what he's giving you other than just, other than spelling Kam Skadabu, I guess, right? And pass protection and things like that. Pass protection. I think there's a lot of that part, like the unexciting part of playing running back, that Najah Harris is fine with, but when you're just talking about advancing the football and trying to get as much yards as possible, it's uninspiring is, I guess, a way I would phrase it. I wish I saw it differently because a lot of fans like him and I had some arguments this week and I saw some pushback this week. I'm hoping I can change my mind on it because it seems like there's going to keep giving him snaps and carries. Yeah, we'll see on the All 22 on like how those, because he averaged like 1.8 yards per carry, but didn't seem like there was a lot of rushing lanes for him. But I felt like last week when, you know, I agree with you, I felt like last week when everyone was like, no, no, no, what are you talking about, Naji? That's our best running back. He's at 4.5 yards per carry. I'm like, but those were just well blocked plays. When you watch the film, you see it's pretty obvious. He's not doing anything. It's just blocked. And now all of a sudden, when he doesn't get the blocking, it's 1.8. So it's like, this was so easy to see. I think your point is more like he's just not somebody who's going to create for you. He'll get what's there, but he's not going to create anything. I think they all can get what's there. That's kind of my point. I just think if they were well-blocked plays for Scadaboo or Tracy or Tickle Terry over the last three weeks, they would have got what Najee got too. And it's on the plays where it's not blocked, where he just offers you negative. That's the thing. He can't get anywhere laterally. So the play, he can't bounce outside. He doesn't have cool cuts inside or really anything. And he sometimes pushes the, but I don't feel like he's really creating a lot after contact, right? He's certainly not forcing in-the-box misses, in-the-phone-booth misses. So a tackle. So I don't know exactly. I guess he's falling forward because he's just 200 whatever pounds, I guess. I don't know. I don't see it really at all with this guy. I'm just going to be honest. Your next High Five moment awaits. No purchase necessary void where prohibited by law must be 21 years or older terms and conditions apply. High Five Casino. Smithfield Leonard, thank you. Keep up the great work, guys. A tie beats a loss. And you're not wrong. A tie could get the Giants a win, right? Like it dies better than a loss. And we're still first in the division. Exactly. A tie can get the Giants a win of this division. Like that's something. And I know they tied a Washington team who might also be competing. You know, they're one in three, but they're competing. But Jayden, they're competing. The NFC sucks, man. Like, she's bad this year, man. Washington's one win is against the Seattle Seahawks. I know. Marriota. With Marriota. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like their defense is pretty good. It looked pretty good last week against the Colts. It had some big plays against Darnold. Looked pretty good against us. Like, they're not a bad team. The Cowboys, I don't know what to make of them. They had such a bad loss at home, dude. The Eagles, I watched that whole game today. They almost won a football game without doing that, like a first down in the second half. Their second half, like after the Jaguars adjusted to their first half, like, oh, they gave them a blown play on that Cooper touchdown. It was a great throw by Earths, but like it was a blown play by Jacksonville, too. It was just like nothing available for them on offense in the second half. Yeah, Ox, thank you so much. A Washington needs to start. I need a drink. This team, man. Washington needs to start. What does that mean? A wash needs to start. I need a drink. This team. I don't know what you mean by that, Oxducinator. Ox is the guy, though. He is a good guy, though. Larry, thank you so much. Giants last three ties vs. Washington. This is funny. Giants last three ties vs. Washington. Redskins vs. Washington football team. Washington commanders. That's great, man. That's crazy. This game has a lot of historical meaning too, because I saw on the Fox broadcast and the Giants had won this game, Nick. It would have been the first time they started 2-0 in the division, which this was a crazy stat since 2008. How insane is that? 18 seasons and they never had a 2-0 start in the division. I was shocked by that stat. Also, the commanders, this one was surprising, because we owned them for most of my childhood. They won their last five games against the Giants before this one, the commanders. That was surprising to me. Or no, this was going to be the fifth in a row. You're right. Yeah. I think back to last year, the Giants played them, I think, later in the season, and then the year prior, they opened. Is that correct, or was it? No, no, no. What did they play? One of them early, and then they lost. Last was the Jones year. There was the Jones, one year Jones was there. Remember, we went like commanders, and we went Vikings, then commander, or no. Yeah, Vikings commander. Last year was Russell Wilson against commanders, and we lost that. Yeah, what week was that? Week six-ish? It was around that. Last year was one, week one, I thought, that was the game. It was week one, you're right. Yeah. But then two years, the Jones Vikings year, where he opened against the Vikings, and we had like no points. And then we played the Commanders in week two that year, right? Yep. We won that game? That was when, like, we came on after the All 22 show, and we lost that game, obviously. Yeah, we lost. That was Shane Bowen blew it, and we couldn't kick a field goal, which is funny. And we came on the podcast, we criticized Shane Bowen, and we kind of took some shit at the time for it. Because it was a second game coordinating, but I was like, this guy, he had no idea what he was, how to adjust to a Washington team that didn't really want to like a Washington team that was just quick hitting the entire time to get the football out. And we were playing at like eight yards depth at the cornerback position. And dropping eight and rushing three. I mean, if this game wasn't proof of anything, that you got to be aggressive and you have to never drop eight and rush three when you're trying to protect the lead. I don't know what would be, but I'm excited that Dennardwilson understands that. Yeah, same dude. Kevin, thank you so much. But said the fumble was brutal, but I think Scad is being used wrong. I hate he isn't used in the red zone. Yes. Same. Also, he can make plays in space and we aren't giving him those. Yes, I agree, man. I think this is a great point by Kevin. And we haven't touched on this specifically, even though we danced around it. Great point, Kevin. We got to design some manufactured touchers to Scadaboo. He's a space guy. He's right. That's where he's at his best. That's such a good point by Kevin. Yes, Kevin. Nailing it, Kevin. But listen, if you think about what he did even in the second half when he had a couple big plays, it was when he was in space when they gave him the pitch outside. That's the type of player Scadaboo is. And they're trying to pigeonhole him into this role where he's your lead back and you're in a heavy personnel and you got Ricard and these old linemen who don't push, move the line of scrimmage really at all. And that's just not a good fit for him. So good call, Kevin. I also agree with you in the red zone. My most hated time to see Najee Harris is when we're in the red zone. I think that's the worst possible time to use a back like Najee who runs high, has no lateral ability to do anything, can't make guys miss and doesn't really do anything after contact really. So like those, like it should be Tracy Singletary and Scadaboo for me 100% of the time in the red zone. If you want to keep Najee, whatever, just please not in the red zone. This is for you, Dan from Jared. Jameis in the spread out of shotgun as a top 16 quarterback. Maybe not by most people's opinions, but by the reality and by the EPA and by what we saw the last two weeks, it's 550 and six touchdowns in these spots. So yeah, he's doing well, man. Yes, sir. Thank you. Said under Dable Bowen, we lose the last three games. Yes. How much do you think the way Harbs did a tough camp helps keep us resilient in the fourth quarter of these? It's the reason this is happening. We talked about it then too. We were like, dude, fourth quarter, we're not going to be the gas team if we run on a hard campus or else says Quinn gets my bone headed coach on vote. What Thanksgiving came in October, I guess. I'll take the non-laws. James locked in. Yeah, same here, dude. And I don't know. Go ahead, Nick. No, I was just going to say I doubt Quinn wanted it to go down that way. I'm sure he was probably tracking on it. Maybe I'm sure he talked about it at this point. We haven't seen it because we went live right after. But damn, that was a terrible look. It was. I kind of put it on Jaden, too. Yeah. I mean, those are them for me. Yeah. I don't know what he was thinking. Jaden was laying down for like three seconds after he was tackled. And I was like, you know, I was like my heart dropped for a second because I felt like a Giants fender somewhat touched the ball. And I was like, don't call the delay of game on the defense. I thought for a second we were going to get fucked and lose the game. Yeah, man. Yeah, I get screwed and lose the game by delay of game. So the defender like kind of touched the ball, but the ref quickly got on it and tried to spot it for them. And it was just like clearly too late at that point. Jaden was laying there, like you said, for probably closer to like a second and a half of real time. But even that is like too much. And like, like it was like not even close to them getting the snap off. I know it was it was wild. We could have popped up. And like Tremaine Edmonds was laying on his feet, but he wasn't like holding it down and like to the point where he calls it penalty. I felt like Tremaine Edmonds was like, was this guy going to ever get up? Try to get up? It was weird, dude. Very wacky. Is there? Thank you. Reader is a beast. Yeah, he almost blocked that point. It like literally just like missed his his fingertips. Jack Kelly, citing pun team. Yes. I'm talking about Jack Kelly, actually, on that one. But Reader is a beast. Yes, he absolutely is. Michael Wilson, thank you so much. I took my son to the game. Giants fans were literally howling with laughter at the ending of the game. I love to see that bounce back. I like this game, man. It was like back and forth. A tie is not the worst thing that could have happened to us. We're still it feels like we're still alive. It almost feels like a foul ball, you know, like we're still alive in the count. And that's how and a loss would have felt like, oh boy, like even though we'd still be technically leading the division, it's just like a devastating loss. Yeah, 100% dude. The way to look at it is the Giants were in the position to to they were the last one holding the loss. You know what I mean? Like it was a hot potato. Yeah, the Giants in Washington were just passing the loss back and forth and the Giants were like, oh shit, there's no time left on the clock. I'm holding the loss. And then Thanos just snapped his fingers and the thing just freaking disintegrated. I guess none of us will know that nothing happened. You guys have no idea what's going on on your total reset. Yeah, total reset, man. Cole, thank you so much. Got here late. Is this type of offense? Is this type of offense? Is a running back like Tracy a better fit? I think if you're going to go shotgun spread, both Scataboo and Tracy are the best fit. But I also think Singletary can operate at that too. Absolutely. I want to see Singletary next week. I hope people are asking questions to Harbaugh and pestering them as to like, hey, it's been an ineffective run game for basically three weeks now. Devon Singletary is known for being a veteran that you could trust. I've heard, we've heard Harbaugh talk about Devon Singletary and how much he wants to be on the field and all that. I just got to give this guy an opportunity. Joe Schmo, thank you so much. Love you guys. Breakdown first time caller, long time listener. Thank you, Joe Schmo. Thanks, Joe Schmo. Was Reese a quarterback spy those couple of times Daniels ran by? No. No, I don't believe. The one toward the end of the game. You're talking about the touchdown run? No, you're talking about the touchdowns, I think. I don't think he was the spy on those. No, he seemed like an underneath defender because he was fading with the crossing route that gave Daniels the alley and I just don't think you'd be doing that if he was a quarterback spy. Yeah, I think the reality is the Giants played pressure and man and then you're going to get lose to quarterback runs on pressure man. But again, I'll reiterate, the time we spied him, it didn't work either. That's the thing. Spy is not a guarantee. Snatched a tie from the jaws of defeat. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it, Javier. Snatched a tie from the jaws of defeat. You just don't hear that every day. You really don't hear that a lot. Yes, sir. Thank you so much. I'd like to see Fields more. Much bigger target for Jameis, which I think would make a big difference, can also take hits better. Yeah. He had one play where he caught it and got up Field really quickly, picked up like an extra four or five yards. I was like, yeah, he's a good player. That was great. Toward the end of the game, I think toward before overtime or in over. That was a great play by him. I'll say this, as I look at the offense moving forward with Jameis, he has, this is my next, it's a likely Fields offense and then, I'm sorry, it's a likely neighbors offense and then Fields is the third one I think can hit for us. I don't think it's going to be one of these running backs. I don't think it's going to be our run game at all. I think it's going to have to be Fields. Bear, thank you so much. I don't know if Harbaugh likes this running back room. I feel like there will be. How could he? They're fumbling every chance they get, dude. It's going to be a massive running back over all this off season. Massive. You're 100% right. I would not be, and did we know the Giants were interested in Jeremiah Love? So they even anticipated this. And then let's be honest, it has not been good through, and the Giants are 3-1-1. It's been horrible. If you really think of it as all the bumbles, like the fumbles, the lack of production. But again, some of that is on the blocking. Yes. So I think this is an excellent point, Bear. And I think you're right. And that doesn't mean Scatterburge is not going to be a giant. Of course, he's going to be like, I just don't think his role. I think he's going to be the one being. Yeah, I want a center. I want a center, man. Bad. I want a good frickin center. Yeah, man. Same here. Joe Schmo, what's up? He says, what's up with the eight illegal shift calls? Is that on players or coaches? It's players got to check to see where they're at. It's on the game situations too, at times. Because I think a lot of the times I saw it happen twice in our game and across the NFL. We see it how many times Nick, where it's like a play was like, let's say long developing or just like almost catch and they don't know. And like, and then they never reset the play clock. The refs, even though like it was all this big, you know, after the play, where it was like 15 seconds of like debating what actually happened on the play, they don't reset the play clock and then you just run out of time. I think some of that is on the officiating to understand and not just for the Giants, for all teams. Like if you're going to take time after the play to decide what happened, you need to reset the play clock. Yeah, but he saw about illegal shifts and I mean. Yeah, but some of those, I think happened at like the end of the snap, like when they were prepared, like they, you know, they couldn't get the snap in time. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. No, I understand what you're saying. You're rushing it. Yeah. There have been quite a few illegal shifts to Joe Schmoe. Brennan Smoker, thank you, said, Yo, fellas, crazy game. NFL really needs to figure out this tie thing. If offense defense can't decide the game through five quarters, maybe a quicker shootout to decide a winner. That would be horrible for us. I don't know. Did we even see the commander's kicker? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think we missed an extra point. Yeah. Very consequential. One consequential extra points. I guess maybe a shootout would have worked in our favor. I don't know. I think we should do an Oklahoma drill. To decide the game. Yes, very gooster. Thank you. He said, out of curiosity, did either of you think we should have gone for two on the last touchdown? I didn't because I don't trust the Giants red zone. I don't like our red zone. I also I'm not a big fan of the go for two in that spot, to be honest. I think you take it over time and you take what you earned. I just think it's so deflating when you make the comeback and then blow it with one play like a missed two point conversion. Yeah, I was fine with it. If I had more trust in the Giants offense and those situations, I would have said yes, I like that. Same, if darts in the game, yes, darts a good two point conversion type quarterback. Also for me, it has to be 30 seconds or under left on the clock. There was still way more time than the fourth quarter. If you get the two and it doesn't even guarantee you the win, then I'm totally out on going for the two. Yeah, yeah, same. All right, that is all our supers. Nice. That was a fun show. Thank you to everybody who joined the show. Really enjoyed a lively chat. Please leave comments during and after, I'm sorry, after the show as well. Don't just do it during. Please hit the like button if you haven't already. It's really important for us to grow the show, that we get likes consistently on this show. So please hit the like button, subscribe if you haven't already. Leave us a rating and review on iTunes, Spotify, any of those things that help support the show. It's really appreciated. Thank you so much for being here today. Have a great rest of your day. We'll be back with you tomorrow with the film reviews. One more thing. It seems like the chat is telling us that Yannick and Gokwe is coming in tomorrow for a... I don't know if that's true. We get killed by the chat a lot. Oh, no, that's actually Dill's. Dill's seems like a non-troll. Because I've had some weird chat things that ended up not being true. Well, I've seen it three times in the chat. So that makes me... And Dill's is also a real one, too. So again, I didn't see that... Dill's is a real one. Let me make that clear. I know Dill's not a troll. So I respect that. Yeah, but the Giants definitely need some edge help. So we'll see. Yeah. All right. See you guys.